Re: Superleague re-structure : Thu May 20, 2021 12:35 am  

CrusaderPete wrote:

Bring back the Championship Eights and the Million Squid Game, as a Bronco, I'm a huge fam, lmao....No, seriously, I did think at least it meant SL clubs only got replaced by something marhinally better rather than something decididly worse.

It was completely biased. Once broken by Leigh. The eyes opened again.

Re: Superleague re-structure : Thu May 20, 2021 5:21 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

Poor Bradford failed to beat them when it mattered and went into a death spiral, shame really, as they used to be quite a force in SL.
You really need to get over the MPG, there's plenty of water gone under the proverbial bridge and right now, the game has many bigger issues to get through, not least the drop in funding and even more importantly, the drop off in numbers playing the game .

These "bigger issues" are important yes, so as there is a drop in TV funding then the Bulls back in Superleague would help towards a rise in the SL average gate.

As for the drop in players game wide, and quality players for Superleague then again a Superleague Bulls academy may turn up a few gems that Salford or Catalans aren't turning up.

So you can't get away with trying to brush the idea of Bulls back in Superleague under the carpet not being an issue, because there are other OBVIOUS problems. Bulls in Superleague can help alleviate problems of player development and monetary income into the game.

Don't you see that

Or are Toulouse going to boost the playing roster, the TV income and the crowds??

Is this a "bigger issue"?

Re: Superleague re-structure : Thu May 20, 2021 6:44 am  

atomic wrote:

The structure does require change. The super 8’s for all it’s bias, created intrigue. Clubs forced to spend to regain position and clubs forced to spend to promote position. Entertaining and vey costly to clubs on the receiving end. Hence goodbye super 8’s.

If they take the approach of 2 x 10, the product will again become stale. You can throw who want to into SL2 but the stale product SL will still remain.

Without serious money being pumped in to this idea, it’s dead before it starts.

I agree that the 3 x 8's did add some intrigue.
However, the destabilising effect that it had on both, the top sides from The Championship and the lower half of SL were too great.
The bottom line with any restructure, is that, ultimately, it's just another attempt at a quick fix and far from making the game more attractive to supporters and sponsors, it makes RL look desperate.
Is RL so mickey poor that we have to shake up the bottle every few seasons to try and get some "fizz" back into the game ?

Has anyone stopped and asked, the fans, TV companies, sponsors, club chairmen etc, what they want to see from the game.
The new "covid" rules, whilst quickening up the game have taken some of the punctuation points from the play and made the game even more one dimensional.
It was great for a while but, it isn't helping the appeal of the sport.
-I absolutely accept the changes were and still are neccessary but, they shouldn't remain indefinitely.

If we go down the 2 x 10 route, where do we go after that.

To keep reducing the number of clubs whilst theoretically making all of the games of higher quality, actually takes away even more of the diversity within the sport.
Where do we go when that fails to bring any increase in revenue, reduce again to 8 clubs or 6 ??

Re: Superleague re-structure : Thu May 20, 2021 7:43 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

I agree that the 3 x 8's did add some intrigue.
However, the destabilising effect that it had on both, the top sides from The Championship and the lower half of SL were too great.
The bottom line with any restructure, is that, ultimately, it's just another attempt at a quick fix and far from making the game more attractive to supporters and sponsors, it makes RL look desperate.
Is RL so mickey poor that we have to shake up the bottle every few seasons to try and get some "fizz" back into the game ?

Has anyone stopped and asked, the fans, TV companies, sponsors, club chairmen etc, what they want to see from the game.
The new "covid" rules, whilst quickening up the game have taken some of the punctuation points from the play and made the game even more one dimensional.
It was great for a while but, it isn't helping the appeal of the sport.
-I absolutely accept the changes were and still are neccessary but, they shouldn't remain indefinitely.

If we go down the 2 x 10 route, where do we go after that.

To keep reducing the number of clubs whilst theoretically making all of the games of higher quality, actually takes away even more of the diversity within the sport.
Where do we go when that fails to bring any increase in revenue, reduce again to 8 clubs or 6 ??

Unfortunately, the game has been in a ever quickening downward spiral for some years now. At the beginning when SL was first mooted, and the club Chairmen of the day fell head over heels to receive the pot of gold, some clubs faced mergers, and all of what happened then and since, I feel that the fans have never been consulted, and now, the game I feel is really dying.
Some people think the games saviour will be the B Bulls and their fan base, and if they are welcome to SL if they can achieve this on the field. I don’t have the right answers to the game’s problems, but I can use common sense to decide if any proposals make good sense to implement. Sadly, there’s not been many good ideas recently,

Re: Superleague re-structure : Thu May 20, 2021 8:13 am  

Dunkirk Spirit wrote:

Unfortunately, the game has been in a ever quickening downward spiral for some years now. At the beginning when SL was first mooted, and the club Chairmen of the day fell head over heels to receive the pot of gold, some clubs faced mergers, and all of what happened then and since, I feel that the fans have never been consulted, and now, the game I feel is really dying.
Some people think the games saviour will be the B Bulls and their fan base, and if they are welcome to SL if they can achieve this on the field. I don’t have the right answers to the game’s problems, but I can use common sense to decide if any proposals make good sense to implement. Sadly, there’s not been many good ideas recently,

Nobody thinks the game's saviour will be the Bradford Bulls. Literally not one single person. Or if that person exists it is a greater reflection of the state of the game than it is the Bulls. However many do look to the period when the Bulls played to 10k+ and produced good player for the international team as a period when the game was stronger than it is now and more attractive to TV audiences, national media etc. They were one of of 5/6 clubs who could sell 10k for a semi final and 20k+ for a final. And compete with Wigan, Leeds, St's over the entire history of our game, not just SL. It is one of the biggest names in British rugby league and rise and fall of SL almost perfectly mirrors the rise and fall of the Bulls.

Had any of the expansion clubs brought the above, the game wouldn't be dying as you say. If York or Newcastle could grow year on year, then this would be a huge plus. If London had a stable home..... Even now, after every disaster that has befallen the club, fighting for 11th place, the Bulls would be better supported in SL than most of the clubs in it. And that. In a nutshell is why SL is in decline.

Re: Superleague re-structure : Thu May 20, 2021 1:40 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

1. Has anyone stopped and asked, the fans, TV companies, sponsors, club chairmen etc, what they want to see from the game.

2. If we go down the 2 x 10 route, where do we go after that. To keep reducing the number of clubs whilst theoretically making all of the games of higher quality, actually takes away even more of the diversity within the sport.Where do we go when that fails to bring any increase in revenue, reduce again to 8 clubs or 6 ??

1.The TV company, and the club chairmen have very recently sat down and discussed what they want for the game. How come you missed that?

2. Going to 2x10 has been favoured by the big clubs in the lead up to and after the talks with SKY .

SKY like to show the big games amongst the big clubs and fans do respond as well and will turn out for 3 league matches against each opponent.

SKY get nothing much out of the French clubs who bring nothing much to Superleague

So it's obvious that what SKY, the top English clubs and their fans want.

Wigan Leigh
Leeds Bradford
Saints Wigan
Hull HKR
Cas Wakey

5 major derbies three times a year, higher average crowds. plenty for SKY to show it's subscribers, and the ten clubs get a bigger share of a smaller TV deal to mitigate losses.

That's glaringly the best deal that can be done given the size of the playing pool and the limited fan base. You got something better??

As for the idea of going down to 8 you made that up??

Re: Superleague re-structure : Thu May 20, 2021 1:51 pm  

Dunkirk Spirit wrote:

Unfortunately, the game has been in a ever quickening downward spiral for some years now. At the beginning when SL was first mooted, and the club Chairmen of the day fell head over heels to receive the pot of gold, some clubs faced mergers, and all of what happened then and since, I feel that the fans have never been consulted, and now, the game I feel is really dying.
Some people think the games saviour will be the B Bulls and their fan base, and if they are welcome to SL if they can achieve this on the field. I don’t have the right answers to the game’s problems, but I can use common sense to decide if any proposals make good sense to implement. Sadly, there’s not been many good ideas recently,

DYING ???? in 1995 average attendances in the top flight were 5,500 and few clubs had rich owners It was dying for sure until SKY TV and a host of Rich owners came along and secured big TV deals. Of course it isn't dying......... SKY are still there, the rich owners are still there and the crowds are far bigger than 1995 even with games being on TV.

Re: Superleague re-structure : Thu May 20, 2021 2:09 pm  

M@islebugs wrote:

Nobody thinks the game's saviour will be the Bradford Bulls. Literally not one single person. Or if that person exists it is a greater reflection of the state of the game than it is the Bulls. However many do look to the period when the Bulls played to 10k+ and produced good player for the international team as a period when the game was stronger than it is now and more attractive to TV audiences, national media etc. They were one of of 5/6 clubs who could sell 10k for a semi final and 20k+ for a final. And compete with Wigan, Leeds, St's over the entire history of our game, not just SL. It is one of the biggest names in British rugby league and rise and fall of SL almost perfectly mirrors the rise and fall of the Bulls.

Had any of the expansion clubs brought the above, the game wouldn't be dying as you say. If York or Newcastle could grow year on year, then this would be a huge plus. If London had a stable home..... Even now, after every disaster that has befallen the club, fighting for 11th place, the Bulls would be better supported in SL than most of the clubs in it. And that. In a nutshell is why SL is in decline.

Does the resurgence of Warrington, Hull FC, Castleford and even Salford have zero effect ??
The game is in a spiral nose dive but, cherry picking the sides in the top flight, wont make any difference to the plight of the game.
It very likely would have the opposite effect.

RL is supposed to be a sport, with results on the field of play deciding who prospers and who doesnt.

Even IF we had everyone's "favourite" RL clubs in the top flight, there would be one club winning the GF and one club picking up the wooden spoon and the likes of Wigan, bending the rules to try and gain advantage over the rest.

Sky subscriptions would increase if there weren't so many people watching SL "from overseas", through legal but slightly dodgy connections.
Having said that, the advertising etc, is still watched, even if they are getting their Sky content (and not just RL) for less than £100 a year.

Re: Superleague re-structure : Thu May 20, 2021 3:54 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

Does the resurgence of Warrington, Hull FC, Castleford and even Salford have zero effect ??
The game is in a spiral nose dive but, cherry picking the sides in the top flight, wont make any difference to the plight of the game.
It very likely would have the opposite effect.

RL is supposed to be a sport, with results on the field of play deciding who prospers and who doesnt.

Even IF we had everyone's "favourite" RL clubs in the top flight, there would be one club winning the GF and one club picking up the wooden spoon and the likes of Wigan, bending the rules to try and gain advantage over the rest.

Sky subscriptions would increase if there weren't so many people watching SL "from overseas", through legal but slightly dodgy connections.
Having said that, the advertising etc, is still watched, even if they are getting their Sky content (and not just RL) for less than £100 a year.

Can you PM me with details of obtaining these legal slightly dodgy connections. Purely for research purposes of course

Re: Superleague re-structure : Thu May 20, 2021 4:01 pm  

Dunkirk Spirit wrote:

Can you PM me with details of obtaining these legal slightly dodgy connections. Purely for research purposes of course

I dont have that connection. but, there are plenty who do.