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Re: Superleague re-structure Sat May 01, 2021 11:30 pm  

Donnyman wrote:
Donnyman Free-scoring winger
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ALAW wrote:
Don't know why people think going to 10 will be the savior of rl? Surely getting rid of clubs lowers attendances. Do people want to see the same match 3 times a season?.


YES

2003 Season

Leeds.v.Bradford CC cup 71,000

Bradford.v.Leeds 22,000

Leeds.v.Bradfprd 23,000

Leeds.v. Bradford 21,000

Then they pulled each other for the play offs Bradford.v.Leeds 20,000
Re: Superleague re-structure Sat May 01, 2021 11:56 pm  

Donnyman wrote:
Donnyman Free-scoring winger
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ALAW wrote:
. Do people want to see the same match 3 times a season?


Fraid so....

2017

Saints.v.Wigan 23,000

Wigan.v.Saints 13,000

Saints.v.Wigan 15.000

2006

Cas.v.Wakey 8.000

Wakey.v. Cas 7,000

Wakey.v.Cas 11,000

2007

Hull.v.HKR 23,000

HKR.v.Hull 9,000

Hull,v,HKR 23,000
Re: Superleague re-structure Tue May 04, 2021 3:41 pm  

ALAW wrote:
ALAW Eddie Hemmings's Wig
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Posts: 219
Big derbies maybe but for the smaller clubs? Don't know what the attendances for Wigan huddersfield/Hull kr/Salford. Happy to be proved wrong like.
Re: Superleague re-structure Tue May 04, 2021 4:30 pm  

User avatarwrencat1873 wrote:
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ALAW wrote:
Big derbies maybe but for the smaller clubs? Don't know what the attendances for Wigan huddersfield/Hull kr/Salford. Happy to be proved wrong like.


The games between the top clubs, either by size or league position are the big games, followed by "derby" matches but, increasing the frequency of the derbies or the "big" games, actually devalues them.
In an ideal world, there would be 14 clubs in the top flight, all capable of beating each other but, to reduce from 12, because funding is tight, would be a HUGE mistake, not that this will prevent it from happening.
With greed at the top and a shrinking pot of TV cash, it's a matter of when and not if this change happens.

Yet again, the sport with out any long term plan is going to look after the very short term and sod the long term future of the game.

Just how many changes to the structure do we need and when was the last time that one of these changes had a positive impact on the game ?
Re: Superleague re-structure Tue May 04, 2021 10:48 pm  

Donnyman wrote:
Donnyman Free-scoring winger
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wrencat1873 wrote:

The games between the top clubs, either by size or league position are the big games, followed by "derby" matches but, increasing the frequency of the derbies or the "big" games, actually devalues them.



Not according to the size of the crowds and the consequent revenues.

Read those paying crowds again and actually explain how their value is a negative for the game.
Re: Superleague re-structure Wed May 05, 2021 7:01 am  

Donnyman wrote:
Donnyman Free-scoring winger
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Posts: 2324
ALAW wrote:
Big derbies maybe but for the smaller clubs? Don't know what the attendances for Wigan huddersfield/Hull kr/Salford. Happy to be proved wrong like.


You were proved wrong, and why quote Wigan when they were evidence you are wrong

Random flick through the facts

2014 Warrington.v.Wigan 11,500

2014 Wigan.v.Warrington over 15,000 attended this return league game

2014 Wigan.v.Warrington again in the play offs only three weeks later erm 15,000

Huddersfield

leeds .v.Huddersfield 12.878

Huddersfield.v. Leeds 6381

Leeds.v. Huddersfield (cup) 8,133

Huddersfield.v. leeds yet again for a boring fourth time (play offs) 9,376 Bumper crowd, best of fartown's season

I rest my case M'Lud :D
Re: Superleague re-structure Wed May 05, 2021 7:17 am  

Donnyman wrote:
Donnyman Free-scoring winger
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Posts: 2324
puroresu_boy wrote:

A competition where teams are playing each other multiple times I don't think is good for any broadcaster.



Well you have seen (above) the crowds for "multiple times"...........

Try putting Toulouse, Ottawa and New York in for variety and watch the average crowds tumble.

The crowds we get are due to the close proximity of clubs, the rivalry and the M62 that links then all up.

So pop in London and even Newcastle and watch crowds tumble even further..........

Question for anyone, how is replacing M62 clubs for clubs many miles away "expansion" :shock:

never been able to figure out how Paul Faires Kent Invicta or Uncle Eric's pack expanded anything but travel costs?
Re: Superleague re-structure Wed May 05, 2021 8:03 am  

User avatarwrencat1873 wrote:
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Donnyman wrote:
Not according to the size of the crowds and the consequent revenues.

Read those paying crowds again and actually explain how their value is a negative for the game.


Oh dear, you choose to deliberately miss the point.
Why not just take it to the extreme and have Wigan, Saints, Leeds, Wire and Hull FC in their very own league.?

We already have repeat fixtures 4,5 and sometimes 6 times in a season.

Less is more springs to mind.

You wouldn't want a Sunday Roast every day but, it's great once a week. It would be boring as hell and lose its flavour if you ate the same thing every night.

More importantly, will ANOTHER re structure bring ANY benefit, you know, like the last half dozen ??
Re: Superleague re-structure Wed May 05, 2021 8:18 am  

User avatarwrencat1873 wrote:
wrencat1873 User avatar
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Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2011 7:28 pm
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Donnyman wrote:
Well you have seen (above) the crowds for "multiple times"...........

Try putting Toulouse, Ottawa and New York in for variety and watch the average crowds tumble.

The crowds we get are due to the close proximity of clubs, the rivalry and the M62 that links then all up.

So pop in London and even Newcastle and watch crowds tumble even further..........

Question for anyone, how is replacing M62 clubs for clubs many miles away "expansion" :shock:

never been able to figure out how Paul Faires Kent Invicta or Uncle Eric's pack expanded anything but travel costs?


A few months ago, you were advocating the inclusion of York, Newcastle and London :shock:
Re: Superleague re-structure Wed May 05, 2021 6:07 pm  
Ornery Optimist Silver RLFANS Member
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Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2014 6:51 pm
Posts: 5629
Donnyman wrote:
Well you have seen (above) the crowds for "multiple times"...........

Try putting Toulouse, Ottawa and New York in for variety and watch the average crowds tumble.

The crowds we get are due to the close proximity of clubs, the rivalry and the M62 that links then all up.

So pop in London and even Newcastle and watch crowds tumble even further..........

Question for anyone, how is replacing M62 clubs for clubs many miles away "expansion" :shock:

never been able to figure out how Paul Faires Kent Invicta or Uncle Eric's pack expanded anything but travel costs?


As none of Toulouse,Ottawa,and New York have ever been Super League, then the average crowds will never be known.
By limiting the clubs the crowds are then limited.
Never been able to figure out how,despite some crowd figures you quoted,the attendances will rise while the playing performance continues to Lag behind.
Should Ottawa,Toulouse or New York sign the better players,it may attract better attendances.
Never been able to figure out how the ageing fanbase is used as an example of how great the sport is when few clubs have decent stadia and there are fewer decent sponsors.The ageing fanbase may just stick to viewing on screen and not attending games.
What will your M62 clubs be doing if Sky pull out in 2 years time,say,for example the European Super League in soccer is to be covered by Sky? ( Yes I know the clubs have temporarily shelved the ESL )
No reserves,but resilience,persistence and determination are omnipotent.
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SL RND: 25 Castleford24-40Warrington
Sun 12th Sep
SLRND: 24 Leigh26-18Wakefield
NRL RND: 26 Parramatta28-20Newcastle
CH RND: 21 Batley24-31Dewsbury
CH RND: 21 LondonB28-48Featherstone
CH RND: 21 Oldham24-38Newcastle
CH RND: 21 Whitehaven19-6Halifax
CH RND: 21 Widnes10-9Bradford
CH RND: 21 Sheffield28-34Swinton
L1 RND: 21 Workington14-32Hunslet
L1 RND: 21 Doncaster26-28Keighley
L1 RND: 21 Rochdale50-22Coventry
WSL RND: 15 CastlefordW6-50St.HelensW
WSL RND: 15 Wire W18-34FeatherstoneW
WSL RND: 15 LeedsW28-10WiganW
Sat 11th Sep
SL RND: 24 Hull FC0-10Wigan
SL RND: 24 Warrington20-19Salford
SL RND: 24 Catalans18-30Huddersfield
SL RND: 24 Hull KR26-19Castleford
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Sydney25-24Gold Coast
This is an inplay table and positions can change as matches are in play.
National Rugby League 2021 ROUND : 25
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Melbourne 24 815 316 499 42
Penrith 24 640 280 360 42
Souths 24 775 453 322 40
Manly 24 744 492 252 32
Sydney 24 636 475 161 32
Parramatta 24 566 457 109 30
Newcastle 24 428 571 -143 24
Gold Coast 24 568 553 15 20
 
Cronulla 24 512 556 -44 20
Canberra 24 481 578 -97 20
St.George 24 474 616 -142 16
NZ Warriors 24 453 624 -171 16
Wests 24 500 714 -214 16
Brisbane 24 446 695 -249 14
NQL Cowboys 24 460 748 -288 14
Canterbury 24 340 710 -370 6
This is an inplay table and positions can change as matches are in play.
Betfred Super League XXVI ROUND : 24
 PLDFADIFFPTSDIFFWP%
Catalans 22 680 386 294 38 176.17 86.36
St.Helens 20 534 203 331 32 263.05 80
Warrington 20 548 330 218 29 166.06 72.50
Wigan 24 375 377 -2 28 99.47 58.33
Hull KR 19 485 422 63 20 114.93 52.63
Leeds 23 520 428 92 24 121.50 52.17
 
Castleford 22 415 512 -97 22 81.05 50
Hull FC 20 397 432 -35 17 91.90 42.50
Huddersfield 23 418 492 -74 16 84.96 34.78
Wakefield 23 438 536 -98 16 81.72 34.78
Salford 21 376 572 -196 12 65.73 28.57
Leigh 21 332 828 -496 4 40.10 9.52
This is an inplay table and positions can change as matches are in play.
Betfred Championship 2021 ROUND : 20
 PLDFADIFFPTSDIFFWP%
Toulouse 13 616 112 504 26 550 100
Featherstone 19 817 254 563 34 321.65 94.74
Halifax 19 512 323 189 26 158.51 68.42
Bradford 18 483 455 28 24 106.15 66.67
LondonB 18 504 499 5 21 101 63.89
Batley 19 525 370 155 24 141.89 63.16
 
Whitehaven 20 447 496 -49 21 90.12 52.50
York 19 470 455 15 16 103.30 42.11
Widnes 19 458 509 -51 15 89.98 39.47
Newcastle 18 381 521 -140 13 73.13 36.11
Sheffield 18 382 553 -171 13 69.08 36.11
Dewsbury 19 308 570 -262 13 54.04 34.21
Oldham 19 270 691 -421 5 39.07 13.16
Swinton 20 354 719 -365 3 49.24 7.50
This is an inplay table and positions can change as matches are in play.
Betfred League One 2021 ROUND : 22
 PLDFADIFFPTSDIFFWP%
Barrow 17 596 275 321 27 216.73 79.41
Workington 15 471 310 161 21 151.94 70
Crusaders 17 539 410 129 22 131.46 64.71
Doncaster 17 472 390 82 22 121.03 64.71
Keighley 18 612 385 227 23 158.96 63.89
Hunslet 18 562 435 127 20 129.20 55.56
 
Rochdale 17 505 488 17 17 103.48 50
Coventry 17 407 460 -53 12 88.48 35.29
LondonS 18 292 577 -285 7 50.61 19.44
West Wales 18 208 896 -688 1 23.21 2.78
This is an inplay table and positions can change as matches are in play.
Betfred Womens Super League 2021 ROUND : 9
 PLDFADIFFPTSDIFFWP%
St.HelensW 7 370 36 334 12 1,027.78 85.71
WiganW 6 222 64 158 10 346.88 83.33
YorkW 6 186 102 84 8 182.35 66.67
CastlefordW 6 166 96 70 8 172.92 66.67
BradfordW 8 158 264 -106 6 59.85 37.50
Hudds W 7 104 288 -184 4 36.11 28.57
 
Wire W 8 150 334 -184 4 44.91 25
FeatherstoneW 8 122 338 -216 4 36.09 25
LeedsW 7 364 38 326 14 957.89 100
WakefieldW 7 50 332 -282 0 15.06 0
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