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Re: Superleague re-structure Sat May 01, 2021 11:30 pm  

Donnyman wrote:
Donnyman Free-scoring winger
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ALAW wrote:
Don't know why people think going to 10 will be the savior of rl? Surely getting rid of clubs lowers attendances. Do people want to see the same match 3 times a season?.


YES

2003 Season

Leeds.v.Bradford CC cup 71,000

Bradford.v.Leeds 22,000

Leeds.v.Bradfprd 23,000

Leeds.v. Bradford 21,000

Then they pulled each other for the play offs Bradford.v.Leeds 20,000
Re: Superleague re-structure Sat May 01, 2021 11:56 pm  

Donnyman wrote:
Donnyman Free-scoring winger
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ALAW wrote:
. Do people want to see the same match 3 times a season?


Fraid so....

2017

Saints.v.Wigan 23,000

Wigan.v.Saints 13,000

Saints.v.Wigan 15.000

2006

Cas.v.Wakey 8.000

Wakey.v. Cas 7,000

Wakey.v.Cas 11,000

2007

Hull.v.HKR 23,000

HKR.v.Hull 9,000

Hull,v,HKR 23,000
Re: Superleague re-structure Tue May 04, 2021 3:41 pm  

ALAW wrote:
ALAW Eddie Hemmings's Wig
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Posts: 191
Big derbies maybe but for the smaller clubs? Don't know what the attendances for Wigan huddersfield/Hull kr/Salford. Happy to be proved wrong like.
Re: Superleague re-structure Tue May 04, 2021 4:30 pm  

User avatarwrencat1873 wrote:
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ALAW wrote:
Big derbies maybe but for the smaller clubs? Don't know what the attendances for Wigan huddersfield/Hull kr/Salford. Happy to be proved wrong like.


The games between the top clubs, either by size or league position are the big games, followed by "derby" matches but, increasing the frequency of the derbies or the "big" games, actually devalues them.
In an ideal world, there would be 14 clubs in the top flight, all capable of beating each other but, to reduce from 12, because funding is tight, would be a HUGE mistake, not that this will prevent it from happening.
With greed at the top and a shrinking pot of TV cash, it's a matter of when and not if this change happens.

Yet again, the sport with out any long term plan is going to look after the very short term and sod the long term future of the game.

Just how many changes to the structure do we need and when was the last time that one of these changes had a positive impact on the game ?
Re: Superleague re-structure Tue May 04, 2021 10:48 pm  

Donnyman wrote:
Donnyman Free-scoring winger
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wrencat1873 wrote:

The games between the top clubs, either by size or league position are the big games, followed by "derby" matches but, increasing the frequency of the derbies or the "big" games, actually devalues them.



Not according to the size of the crowds and the consequent revenues.

Read those paying crowds again and actually explain how their value is a negative for the game.
Re: Superleague re-structure Wed May 05, 2021 7:01 am  

Donnyman wrote:
Donnyman Free-scoring winger
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Posts: 2209
ALAW wrote:
Big derbies maybe but for the smaller clubs? Don't know what the attendances for Wigan huddersfield/Hull kr/Salford. Happy to be proved wrong like.


You were proved wrong, and why quote Wigan when they were evidence you are wrong

Random flick through the facts

2014 Warrington.v.Wigan 11,500

2014 Wigan.v.Warrington over 15,000 attended this return league game

2014 Wigan.v.Warrington again in the play offs only three weeks later erm 15,000

Huddersfield

leeds .v.Huddersfield 12.878

Huddersfield.v. Leeds 6381

Leeds.v. Huddersfield (cup) 8,133

Huddersfield.v. leeds yet again for a boring fourth time (play offs) 9,376 Bumper crowd, best of fartown's season

I rest my case M'Lud :D
Re: Superleague re-structure Wed May 05, 2021 7:17 am  

Donnyman wrote:
Donnyman Free-scoring winger
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Posts: 2209
puroresu_boy wrote:

A competition where teams are playing each other multiple times I don't think is good for any broadcaster.



Well you have seen (above) the crowds for "multiple times"...........

Try putting Toulouse, Ottawa and New York in for variety and watch the average crowds tumble.

The crowds we get are due to the close proximity of clubs, the rivalry and the M62 that links then all up.

So pop in London and even Newcastle and watch crowds tumble even further..........

Question for anyone, how is replacing M62 clubs for clubs many miles away "expansion" :shock:

never been able to figure out how Paul Faires Kent Invicta or Uncle Eric's pack expanded anything but travel costs?
Re: Superleague re-structure Wed May 05, 2021 8:03 am  

User avatarwrencat1873 wrote:
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Donnyman wrote:
Not according to the size of the crowds and the consequent revenues.

Read those paying crowds again and actually explain how their value is a negative for the game.


Oh dear, you choose to deliberately miss the point.
Why not just take it to the extreme and have Wigan, Saints, Leeds, Wire and Hull FC in their very own league.?

We already have repeat fixtures 4,5 and sometimes 6 times in a season.

Less is more springs to mind.

You wouldn't want a Sunday Roast every day but, it's great once a week. It would be boring as hell and lose its flavour if you ate the same thing every night.

More importantly, will ANOTHER re structure bring ANY benefit, you know, like the last half dozen ??
Re: Superleague re-structure Wed May 05, 2021 8:18 am  

User avatarwrencat1873 wrote:
wrencat1873 User avatar
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Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2011 7:28 pm
Posts: 16049
Donnyman wrote:
Well you have seen (above) the crowds for "multiple times"...........

Try putting Toulouse, Ottawa and New York in for variety and watch the average crowds tumble.

The crowds we get are due to the close proximity of clubs, the rivalry and the M62 that links then all up.

So pop in London and even Newcastle and watch crowds tumble even further..........

Question for anyone, how is replacing M62 clubs for clubs many miles away "expansion" :shock:

never been able to figure out how Paul Faires Kent Invicta or Uncle Eric's pack expanded anything but travel costs?


A few months ago, you were advocating the inclusion of York, Newcastle and London :shock:
Re: Superleague re-structure Wed May 05, 2021 6:07 pm  
Ornery Optimist Silver RLFANS Member
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Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2014 6:51 pm
Posts: 5392
Donnyman wrote:
Well you have seen (above) the crowds for "multiple times"...........

Try putting Toulouse, Ottawa and New York in for variety and watch the average crowds tumble.

The crowds we get are due to the close proximity of clubs, the rivalry and the M62 that links then all up.

So pop in London and even Newcastle and watch crowds tumble even further..........

Question for anyone, how is replacing M62 clubs for clubs many miles away "expansion" :shock:

never been able to figure out how Paul Faires Kent Invicta or Uncle Eric's pack expanded anything but travel costs?


As none of Toulouse,Ottawa,and New York have ever been Super League, then the average crowds will never be known.
By limiting the clubs the crowds are then limited.
Never been able to figure out how,despite some crowd figures you quoted,the attendances will rise while the playing performance continues to Lag behind.
Should Ottawa,Toulouse or New York sign the better players,it may attract better attendances.
Never been able to figure out how the ageing fanbase is used as an example of how great the sport is when few clubs have decent stadia and there are fewer decent sponsors.The ageing fanbase may just stick to viewing on screen and not attending games.
What will your M62 clubs be doing if Sky pull out in 2 years time,say,for example the European Super League in soccer is to be covered by Sky? ( Yes I know the clubs have temporarily shelved the ESL )
No reserves,but resilience,persistence and determination are omnipotent.
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Souths 17 503 346 157 28
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NZ Warriors 17 333 426 -93 10
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St.Helens 12 286 96 190 20 297.92 83.33
Warrington 13 408 213 195 19 191.55 73.08
Wigan 15 247 268 -21 20 92.16 66.67
Hull FC 12 286 215 71 15 133.02 62.50
Hull KR 11 271 244 27 12 111.07 54.55
 
Leeds 14 332 251 81 14 132.27 50
Castleford 14 251 354 -103 12 70.90 42.86
Salford 14 237 405 -168 8 58.52 28.57
Huddersfield 15 244 318 -74 8 76.73 26.67
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Leigh 13 212 508 -296 0 41.73 0
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Toulouse 9 433 88 345 18 492.05 100
Featherstone 12 537 136 401 24 394.85 100
Bradford 12 324 279 45 18 116.13 75
Halifax 13 358 171 187 18 209.36 69.23
LondonB 13 374 337 37 17 110.98 65.38
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