RLFANS.COM
Celebrating
22 years service to
the Rugby League
Community!
WWW.RLFANS.COM • View topic - Superleague re-structure
Re: Superleague re-structure Sun May 09, 2021 4:36 am  

User avatarThetalentboy wrote:
Thetalentboy User avatar
Bronze RLFANS Member
Bronze RLFANS Member

Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2003 10:06 pm
Posts: 4460
Location: Hull
Donnyman wrote:
They attracted the "crowds" by putting on a Free beer festival and leaving the gates open for anyone to wander in. As was reported many people in the ground didn't leave the beer tents. As was reported fans from here who went doubted the crowd size anyway. Your not a WUM of course but you do get some things quite wrong.

If they had all these massive paying crowds how come they lost £30Million?

Huddersfield offered free tickets for a game and it hardly boosted the crowd at all

We do a few games with cheap tickets in the past and it doesn't make much difference really

People won't attend something they don't like whether it's free or not

Toronto proved they could get 8,000 through the gates.... How Many super league clubs would get them crowds in league 1?.... None is the answer
Re: Superleague re-structure Sun May 09, 2021 7:20 am  

Donnyman wrote:
Donnyman Free-scoring winger
Free-scoring winger

Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2019 9:28 am
Posts: 2208
Thetalentboy wrote:

People won't attend something they don't like whether it's free or not

Toronto proved they could get 8,000 through the gates.... How Many super league clubs would get them crowds in league 1?.... None is the answer


They didn't verify the 8,000 you claim. But even 4,000 may have been a very good attendance for a free Rugby league game and a Free Beer festival.

But why as an established sensible poster are you even been drawn down the "crowds" line??

Right from the start Eric Perez spoke about his ambition for the TWP club and his desire to meet the criteria set them for entry to the game here. Perez fully acknowledged the club were required to develop North American players (and they actually did have several such players). However after year one they sacked the north american players off. There was no excuse for this as there are some good North American players playing league, they have played in RL World cups.

Perez fully acknowledged the need to get paying Canadian TV deals and he promised this from the start trying to sell his show in which Grid iron players would bid to convert to League and sign for the Wolfpack.

Nowhere but nowhere was the criteria for success "crowds" but you obviously fell for that, and of course Perez constantly peddled the massive crowds idea and TWP even went on to count the unverified thousands of "Eyeballs" i,e, alleged fans who avidly followed TWP over the internet and social media.

This "expansion club" was so successful it alleged it had hundreds of thousands of followers across the globe never mind "8.000" in the ground

You can find Perez agreeing to develop NA players and find Canadian TV money in his Dave Woods Interview on you tube. The "Crowds" argument was as phoney as the club and the reality was TWP failed to achieve anything they actually agreed to achieve.
Last edited by Donnyman on Sun May 09, 2021 7:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Superleague re-structure Sun May 09, 2021 7:38 am  

Donnyman wrote:
Donnyman Free-scoring winger
Free-scoring winger

Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2019 9:28 am
Posts: 2208
Thetalentboy wrote:

Toronto proved they could get 8,000 through the gates.



And onto the way in which they decided to just dump the club.

David Argyle is a Billionaire and remains so, so money was never an object albeit he had a penchant for not paying his bills. He ran up about £30Million in bills proving transatlantic RL was not financially viable. He was not that interested either as his real personal aim was to own or part own an NRL club.

His "out" once he got bored with it all and realised the SL bosses did not want his circus, was to just walk away owing that massive debt with all his apologists claiming he had been financially wiped out by Covid. Funny thing is his large stakes in the Brazilian Potash mines remained unaffected as the Brazilian president didn't shut down the Brazilian economy, but I suppose the excuse suited people who didn't want the fact, that these phonies had taken RL for a ride to reflect badly on the game here.

So how is a phoney Ottawa Aces going to do it without a $$Billionairre??
Re: Superleague re-structure Sun May 09, 2021 7:50 am  

Donnyman wrote:
Donnyman Free-scoring winger
Free-scoring winger

Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2019 9:28 am
Posts: 2208
Thetalentboy wrote:

Huddersfield offered free tickets for a game and it hardly boosted the crowd at all



So Huddersfield should not be allowed in Superleague then?

The final reality is there would be no Superleague without a bunch of down and out useless, never heard of small northern towns providing clubs into a regional league.

That enough northern investors, invest in enough northern clubs, who develop quality players, with enough northern fans to make these clubs professional and attractive to TV deals on the terrestrial and other channels is why we have RL in this country in the first place.

If you don't think Davey and Fartown are up to it then fine, kick 'em out......
Re: Superleague re-structure Sun May 09, 2021 9:01 am  
Ornery Optimist Silver RLFANS Member
Silver RLFANS Member

Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2014 6:51 pm
Posts: 5388
Donnyman wrote:

Right from the start Eric Perez spoke about his ambition for the TWP club and his desire to meet the criteria set them for entry to the game here. Perez fully acknowledged the club were required to develop North American players (and they actually did have several such players). However after year one they sacked the north american players off. There was no excuse for this as there are some good North American players playing league, they have played in RL World cups.

Perez fully acknowledged the need to get paying Canadian TV deals and he promised this from the start trying to sell his show in which Grid iron players would bid to convert to League and sign for the Wolfpack.



You do recall that Perez left Toronto after about a year to not only start up Ottawa but to help out a M62 that was a repeat offender for not paying,don't you?

How do you think Super League should re - structure? This thread is about that...

Do you think the serial offenders,situated along the M62 corridor, for their numerous on and off field offences,are assisting with youngsters participation, and any future broadcast deal? As they have broken the salary cap twice,will the re-structure do away with a salary cap?
As the serial offending club seem to have problems with the players they sign from elsewhere should clubs be limited to players born and raised within a certain distance? Should the governing body run academies,thereby saving clubs money,and from there the players go to different clubs on a draft basis?
What is the future,other then you banging on with your flawed facts about overseas clubs?
No reserves,but resilience,persistence and determination are omnipotent.
Re: Superleague re-structure Sun May 09, 2021 1:03 pm  

User avatarwrencat1873 wrote:
wrencat1873 User avatar
Gold RLFANS Member
Gold RLFANS Member

Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2011 7:28 pm
Posts: 16048
Donnyman wrote:

You can find Perez agreeing to develop NA players and find Canadian TV money in his Dave Woods Interview on you tube. The "Crowds" argument was as phoney as the club and the reality was TWP failed to achieve anything they actually agreed to achieve.


Perez did say that Toronto would develop Canadian players and, waived their "share" of Sky monies, suggesting that they would have their own TV deal in N. America.
The failure to secure this deal harmed only Toronto and it had ZERO effect on the other SL clubs.

However, inflated or not, their crowds in League 1 and the Championship were excellent, especially for a new club in new territory.
It's not even an argument, it's plain black and white fact.

You talk about crowds "not being verified" but, NOBODY verifies their crowds. Why on earth should they, just as long as they pay the relevant tax to the authorities and share the gate money in fixtures demand it.

You do know that Toronto are no longer in SL ??

Should be interesting to see whether the proposed restructure has any positive benefit on the next tv deal in a couple of years time, especially with just one overseas club in the mix (unless Toulouse gain promotion and or Catalan are relegated0.
Re: Superleague re-structure Sun May 09, 2021 9:32 pm  

User avatarorangeman wrote:
orangeman User avatar
Eddie Hemmings's Wig
Eddie Hemmings's Wig

Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2021 10:06 pm
Posts: 214
I'm still amazed anyone is debating Toronto Wolfpack at all.
There is no debate.
They came, they saw, they folded.
A rich mans folly that only the over zealous RL bigots applauded.

Anyone who dared question their existence was ostracized or accused of being a troll, but as these right minded people pointed out, the club was built on foundations of sand and they vanished without trace.
I rarely purchase any RL print media ay more because it's become a polarised cult like medium, that preaches to the choir. It is such an attitude that holds the game back in my opinion as it makes us look very insular and "clique-like" and therefore unattractive to both new fans and new investors.
Anyway. As I said earlier. 20 teams over 2 divisions, with TV revenue allocated dependant on finishing positions. If Wakefield or Castleford want to remain in their stadiums, let them. If Clubs like London are happy to be reliant on a single benefactor for survival, so be it, but stop pandering to clubs and put the game first.
If Leeds can afford to spend to the cap because they have the fan income, then great and if an Argyle type benefactor wants to bankroll a club, then so be it....but let's get back to talking about the Game and not the friggin structure of the organisation. I don't support the NZ Warriors and London Broncos just so I can whine about the NRL/RFL.....I'd rather whine about how crap the teams are doing :D
Re: Superleague re-structure Sun May 09, 2021 11:14 pm  

The Silent H wrote:
The Silent H Cheeky half-back
Cheeky half-back

Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2020 4:45 am
Posts: 508
Thetalentboy wrote:
Huddersfield offered free tickets for a game and it hardly boosted the crowd at all

We do a few games with cheap tickets in the past and it doesn't make much difference really

People won't attend something they don't like whether it's free or not

Toronto proved they could get 8,000 through the gates.... How Many super league clubs would get them crowds in league 1?.... None is the answer

That hit a nerve with a regular poster.

But you're right, every club does it and it's not a bad thing.
Re: Superleague re-structure Mon May 10, 2021 6:10 am  

Donnyman wrote:
Donnyman Free-scoring winger
Free-scoring winger

Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2019 9:28 am
Posts: 2208
wrencat1873 wrote:

Perez did say that Toronto would develop Canadian players and, waived their "share" of Sky monies, suggesting that they would have their own TV deal in N. America.
The failure to secure this deal harmed only Toronto and it had ZERO effect on the other SL clubs.

Should be interesting to see whether the proposed restructure has any positive benefit on the next tv deal in a couple of years time, especially with just one overseas club in the mix (unless Toulouse gain promotion and or Catalan are relegated0.


"Zero effect on other clubs"

Please don't bother replying if you have to make stuff up like this. The phoney club who failed to achieve their own targets for Superlague took the place of London Broncos in Superleague, and reduced the footprint of the professional game here back to the M62.

So called "expansionists" didn't bat an eyelid at that because they were never "Expansionists" just a small number of noisy people bored with English Rugby League, or wums just stirring things up, continually heralding the need to bring more phoney clubs in like Ottawa.

Let me once again let you have the facts. When Perez promised the TV money he promised it straight away by selling the rights to their search for RL talent amongst grid iron players.

When that didn't happen and when TWP could not get a paying TV deal for their actual matches, Perez was challenged openly. The slippery salesman answer was that he would not be able to get a massive North American deal if there was only one NA club in Superleague. He said that it would need at least FIVE north American clubs in Superleague to provide the content to attract American TV stations.

Frightened to death of a public row, the SL bosses said nothing as Perez lined up Ottawa, and Wilby lined up New York,

But the bottom line here was WUMS and blind so called "expansionists" didn't get it that once the English content of Superleage fell below 10 English clubs the SKY deal became null and void......

You may genuinely think Ottawa, Catalans, Toulouse, New York and TWP would have been a great thing, but this meant ramping up costs and losses across thie Transatlantic league and in addition losing the only TV deal available to the game here. You still keep calling this sort of thing "expansion" why??

Expansion is more pro players and more TV money, even Perez made that clear in his original interview....
Re: Superleague re-structure Mon May 10, 2021 6:34 am  

Donnyman wrote:
Donnyman Free-scoring winger
Free-scoring winger

Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2019 9:28 am
Posts: 2208
orangeman wrote:

1. I'm still amazed anyone is debating Toronto Wolfpack at all. There is no debate. They came, they saw, they folded. A rich mans folly that only the over zealous RL bigots applauded.

Anyone who dared question their existence was ostracized or accused of being a troll, but as these right minded people pointed out, the club was built on foundations of sand and they vanished without trace.
I rarely purchase any RL print media ay more because it's become a polarised cult like medium, that preaches to the choir. It is such an attitude that holds the game back in my opinion as it makes us look very insular and "clique-like" and therefore unattractive to both new fans and new investors.
Anyway. As I said earlier. 20 teams over 2 divisions, with TV revenue allocated dependant on finishing positions. If Wakefield or Castleford want to remain in their stadiums, let them. If Clubs like London are happy to be reliant on a single benefactor for survival, so be it, but stop pandering to clubs and put the game first.
If Leeds can afford to spend to the cap because they have the fan income, then great and if an Argyle type benefactor wants to bankroll a club, then so be it....but let's get back to talking about the Game and not the friggin structure of the organisation. I don't support the NZ Warriors and London Broncos just so I can whine about the NRL/RFL.....I'd rather whine about how crap the teams are doing :D


1. I was generally OK with the excitement this all brought, and of course we had a third division of the League here that was made for expansion clubs. TWP should have persevered within this league playing (and paying) North American players. Imagine having the National USA team playing in Superleague - what was not to like?

2. But the alarm bells rang when they were all sacked off and TWP were allowed to forget player development. At that time IIRC we were into allowing Championship clubs to spend large amounts of money. So TWP did just that announcing they were aiming for SL. SL didn't say much and bottled it when TWP bought promotion only for it to explode in their faces when Lenegan's own London Broncos who had had a decent 2019 season back in SL, and had picked up 10 great wins, were tossed aside for a phoney club.

3. Bottom line was nobody had the leadership or bottle to just call this rubbish out, and shamefully they all publicly allowed some clown to take over TWP and re-apply for Superleague. I keep taking the stance that for this next TV deal Lenegan & Superleague will have learnt their lesson and will now have the bottle to do the right thing and provide SKY with an English League, in which if they want real "expansion" they will put London and Newcastle in it, along with our best M62 clubs.

Maybe the Broncos move to Wimbledon says they will?
PreviousNext

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], FlexWheeler, Kevs Head, Maccbull_BigBullyBooaza and 158 guests

Quick Reply



Subject:
Message:

   
Please note using apple style emoji's can result in posting failures.

Return to The Virtual Terrace


POSTSONLINEMEMBERSRECORDTEAM
5,183,3281,63278,6699,567LOGIN
LOGIN HERE
or REGISTER for more features!.
When you register you get access to the live match scores, live match chat and you can post in the discussions on the forums.
YOU HAVE RL CHAT OFF
RLFANS Match Centre
Sat 24th Jul
NRL
LIVE
Souths60-22NZ Warriors
NRL
LIVE
Manly44-24Wests
Fri 23rd Jul
NRL RND: 19 Sydney28-8Newcastle
NRL RND: 19 NQL Cowboys16-20Melbourne
SL RND: 15 Leeds38-16Salford
SLRND: 15 Wigan25-12Wakefield
Thu 22nd Jul
NRL RND: 19 Parramatta10-12Canberra
SL RND: 15 Huddersfield40-26Hull FC
Mon 19th Jul
WSL RND: 11 WiganW4-12YorkW
Sun 18th Jul
NRL RND: 18 NZ Warriors16-30Penrith
NRL RND: 18 Brisbane24-42Wests
NRL RND: 18 Souths32-24Canterbury
WSL RND: 9 BradfordW42-12FeatherstoneW
WSL RND: 9 LeedsW24-0Hudds W
WSL RND: 9 St.HelensW24-0WakefieldW
WSL RND: 9 Wire W12-48CastlefordW
Sat 17th Jul
NRL RND: 18 Canberra34-18Cronulla
NRL RND: 18 NQL Cowboys18-34Sydney
NRL RND: 18 Melbourne48-4Newcastle
CC RND: 6 St.Helens26-12Castleford
This is an inplay table and positions can change as matches are in play.
National Rugby League 2021 ROUND : 18
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Melbourne 17 632 198 434 30
Penrith 17 493 179 314 30
Souths 17 503 346 157 28
Parramatta 17 474 255 219 26
Sydney 17 453 335 118 22
Manly 17 485 354 131 20
St.George 17 358 382 -24 16
Cronulla 17 326 394 -68 14
 
Canberra 17 347 421 -74 14
Newcastle 17 283 420 -137 14
Gold Coast 17 394 468 -74 12
Wests 17 372 502 -130 12
NQL Cowboys 17 324 527 -203 12
NZ Warriors 17 333 426 -93 10
Brisbane 17 282 542 -260 8
Canterbury 17 212 522 -310 4
This is an inplay table and positions can change as matches are in play.
Betfred Super League XXVI ROUND : 15
 PLDFADIFFPTSDIFFWP%
Catalans 13 387 196 191 24 197.45 92.31
St.Helens 12 286 96 190 20 297.92 83.33
Warrington 13 408 213 195 19 191.55 73.08
Wigan 15 247 268 -21 20 92.16 66.67
Hull FC 12 286 215 71 15 133.02 62.50
Hull KR 10 241 212 29 12 113.68 60
 
Leeds 14 332 251 81 14 132.27 50
Castleford 14 251 354 -103 12 70.90 42.86
Salford 14 237 405 -168 8 58.52 28.57
Huddersfield 15 244 318 -74 8 76.73 26.67
Wakefield 15 259 354 -95 8 73.16 26.67
Leigh 13 212 508 -296 0 41.73 0
This is an inplay table and positions can change as matches are in play.
Betfred Championship 2021 ROUND : 13
 PLDFADIFFPTSDIFFWP%
Toulouse 9 433 88 345 18 492.05 100
Featherstone 12 537 136 401 24 394.85 100
Bradford 12 324 279 45 18 116.13 75
Halifax 13 358 171 187 18 209.36 69.23
LondonB 13 374 337 37 17 110.98 65.38
Batley 13 328 274 54 16 119.71 61.54
 
Newcastle 12 272 358 -86 11 75.98 45.83
Widnes 13 307 344 -37 11 89.24 42.31
Sheffield 13 285 373 -88 11 76.41 42.31
Whitehaven 13 249 372 -123 9 66.94 34.62
Dewsbury 13 197 379 -182 9 51.98 34.62
York 13 299 317 -18 8 94.32 30.77
Oldham 12 166 442 -276 4 37.56 16.67
Swinton 13 224 483 -259 0 46.38 0
This is an inplay table and positions can change as matches are in play.
Betfred League One 2021 ROUND : 10
 PLDFADIFFPTSDIFFWP%
Barrow 10 342 150 192 17 228 85
Workington 9 334 158 176 15 211.39 83.33
Doncaster 9 308 189 119 14 162.96 77.78
Keighley 10 348 239 109 10 145.61 50
Rochdale 10 279 280 -1 10 99.64 50
Crusaders 10 278 318 -40 10 87.42 50
 
Coventry 8 204 240 -36 8 85 50
Hunslet 10 268 257 11 8 104.28 40
LondonS 8 154 292 -138 2 52.74 12.50
West Wales 10 122 514 -392 0 23.74 0
This is an inplay table and positions can change as matches are in play.
Betfred Womens Super League 2021 ROUND : 9
 PLDFADIFFPTSDIFFWP%
LeedsW 7 364 38 326 14 957.89 100
St.HelensW 7 370 36 334 12 1,027.78 85.71
WiganW 6 222 64 158 10 346.88 83.33
YorkW 6 186 102 84 8 182.35 66.67
CastlefordW 6 166 96 70 8 172.92 66.67
BradfordW 8 158 264 -106 6 59.85 37.50
 
Hudds W 7 104 288 -184 4 36.11 28.57
Wire W 8 150 334 -184 4 44.91 25
FeatherstoneW 8 122 338 -216 4 36.09 25
WakefieldW 7 50 332 -282 0 15.06 0
RLFANS Recent Posts




X