Re: New structure latest : Sat Aug 14, 2021 10:47 am  

Saddened! wrote:

Ridiculous that the clubs get a say in this at all. They need strong leadership and any changes to the format and structure should wait until we have that.

This

Re: New structure latest : Sat Aug 14, 2021 11:32 am  

Donnyman wrote:

This purist idea that clubs must only play each other twice is ridiculous. It totally ignores the commercial realities.

So Lenegan & co, say to SKY "we are only playing each other twice, take it or leave it" so SKY says "We will leave it" and the game collapses.

So Lenegan says "we will invent some other competition to fill July and August, (and in that competition like a 9's clubs still end up playing each other a third time or more )

Season 2003

Leeds.v.Bradford 71,000
Bradford.v.Leeds 22,000
Leeds.v.Bradford 23,000
Bradford,v,Leeds 21,000
Bradford.v.Leeds 20,000 It's the entertainment business, if we want "sport" try the Pennine league.

I think 3 'commercially attractive' games a year is ok, but 4 is overkill and there is a risk of further Cup and Playoff games against the same team. But that is of course luck of the draw, the Hull Derby hasn't been played in the Cup in the SL era and we've only had it as a playoff tie once and that was 11 years ago.

I do think they have overkilled the derbys at the Magic Weekend, this years strategy of teams expected to be in a similar position in the table seems to be a good one. Only Rovers-Leigh appears a mismatch so far and that's because Rovers have exceeded expectations, its in the dead last thing on Sunday slot anyway.

The game needs Bradford back in SL, they are now improving a bit on the field and Odsal is at least having a bit of a tidy up. No other club will instantly bring in that many fans and there is loads of history for the media to bring up in their TV coverage.

Re: New structure latest : Sat Aug 14, 2021 3:26 pm  

UllFC wrote:

I think 3 'commercially attractive' games a year is ok, but 4 is overkill and there is a risk of further Cup and Playoff games against the same team. But that is of course luck of the draw, the Hull Derby hasn't been played in the Cup in the SL era and we've only had it as a playoff tie once and that was 11 years ago.

I do think they have overkilled the derbys at the Magic Weekend, this years strategy of teams expected to be in a similar position in the table seems to be a good one. Only Rovers-Leigh appears a mismatch so far and that's because Rovers have exceeded expectations, its in the dead last thing on Sunday slot anyway.

The game needs Bradford back in SL, they are now improving a bit on the field and Odsal is at least having a bit of a tidy up. No other club will instantly bring in that many fans and there is loads of history for the media to bring up in their TV coverage.

I'm confused by your post.
You firstly say that playing each side 3 times a season isn't too bad and then follow by saying they "overkilled the derby games" by having them at Magic.

Remembering that there is the cup and play offs, clubs will meet a MINIMUM of 3 times in the 10 club league and this could easily ramp up to 5 or 6 by the end of the season.

The old saying about too much of a good thing springs to mind.

There seems to be the same thought processes going on as there was for the contrived MPG every season.

It was the rarity of the first MPG that made it special.

If FC played Rovers every few weeks, the derby would lose some of it's appeal.

For me, the problem isn't with the number of clubs in the top flight, in fact, it would benefit from having 14 clubs. It is the lack of cash in the game and reducing to 10 clubs isnt going to add a penny to the money coming into the game.

Also, with 2 French clubs in the top flight, there will be another game without any away fans, further reducing clubs' income, especially if a club cops 2 home fixtures against either or both of the French sides.

Re: New structure latest : Sat Aug 14, 2021 6:26 pm  

Those that don't like repeat fixtures are happy to speak loudly about it, but as the crowds in the grounds show, a second home game against a big team draws more than the first home game against a small team.

So even though the repeat fixtures may see lower crowds, they are more attractive to club owners.

Re: New structure latest : Sat Aug 14, 2021 7:27 pm  

One thing I can’t understand is the idea that a reduced number of clubs improve quality. The way to improve quality is to get more people to play the game then the pool you choose from has more quality players. Sports that have significantly increased participation such as cycling has achieved more. The countries that do the best in the olympics have the biggest populations. If we reduce the amount of SL teams and also the amount of academies. We make the path harder so people will choose to participate in others sports. We are in a pattern of ever diminishing circles. Less teams, less players, less fans, less money!

Re: New structure latest : Sat Aug 14, 2021 10:57 pm  

Leyther14 wrote:

One thing I can’t understand is the idea that a reduced number of clubs improve quality. The way to improve quality is to get more people to play the game then the pool you choose from has more quality players. Sports that have significantly increased participation such as cycling has achieved more. The countries that do the best in the olympics have the biggest populations. If we reduce the amount of SL teams and also the amount of academies. We make the path harder so people will choose to participate in others sports. We are in a pattern of ever diminishing circles. Less teams, less players, less fans, less money!

This is my theory people go on about a pool, well the pool grows to the size of the fish it has to sustain we increase the amount of fish ergo opportunities and in time the pool will grow. It won't happen overnight tho.

If the restructure is a starting block and SL2 is to be credible then it would need its own TV deal with assurances of games broadcast weekly. I would prefere a 2 up 2 down system with the 10 teams, this will improve the quality in both leagues, and also keep the two leagues linked there will be 4 sides moving between the leagues eascj year so especially in SL1 every game will count a few bad games and you could be drawn into the relegation battle.

Re: New structure latest : Sun Aug 15, 2021 7:18 am  

Leyther14 wrote:

One thing I can’t understand is the idea that a reduced number of clubs improve quality. The way to improve quality is to get more people to play the game then the pool you choose from has more quality players. Sports that have significantly increased participation such as cycling has achieved more. The countries that do the best in the olympics have the biggest populations. If we reduce the amount of SL teams and also the amount of academies. We make the path harder so people will choose to participate in others sports. We are in a pattern of ever diminishing circles. Less teams, less players, less fans, less money!

some one has to sit back and review the where damage has been done with the lack of players making it through the system it so bleeding obvious that its as junior level why we are not achieving this, if schools aren't allowing RL to flourish within the curriculum then junior clubs away from the schools have to be supported, flood the junior levels with the players then over the years the will be more, the stop gap is at the age when they reach 16 to 18 when they decide the career direction, not all want to take continue suffering injuries, in my personal situation having recovered from a broken leg I then had enough when I broke my ankle in which I was just left at the hospital to sort my self out and then paid a pittance in insurance to cover my time away from work, It was this that at the time made me thing about finances and chose not to continue something I do regret

Re: New structure latest : Sun Aug 15, 2021 7:40 am  

Leyther14 wrote:

One thing I can’t understand is the idea that a reduced number of clubs improve quality. The way to improve quality is to get more people to play the game then the pool you choose from has more quality players. Sports that have significantly increased participation such as cycling has achieved more. The countries that do the best in the olympics have the biggest populations. If we reduce the amount of SL teams and also the amount of academies. We make the path harder so people will choose to participate in others sports. We are in a pattern of ever diminishing circles. Less teams, less players, less fans, less money!

[i]"More people playing the game"[/i] Is of course what we want plus more fans watching, more money men buying into clubs, and more media outlets buying into Rugby League.

But with respect you offer a solution without a plan to get there.

Most kids don't want to play Rugby or Soccer any more, nor do adults, the world has been changing and they don't "run off to other sports"

Now that parents can see the head knocks, and see the damage done to RL players RU players and Soccer players they are less enthusiastic to encourage or support their kids in these sports. It's not the game that makes the path harder it's social change, and health awareness.

Playing rugby and soccer is now a choice, people are free not to choose to do it.

Re: New structure latest : Sun Aug 15, 2021 9:45 am  

Donnyman wrote:

[i]"More people playing the game"[/i] Is of course what we want plus more fans watching, more money men buying into clubs, and more media outlets buying into Rugby League.

But with respect you offer a solution without a plan to get there.

Most kids don't want to play Rugby or Soccer any more, nor do adults, the world has been changing and they don't "run off to other sports"

Now that parents can see the head knocks, and see the damage done to RL players RU players and Soccer players they are less enthusiastic to encourage or support their kids in these sports. It's not the game that makes the path harder it's social change, and health awareness.

Playing rugby and soccer is now a choice, people are free not to choose to do it.

Think my solution is not a quick fix that the RFL looks for.
1. All teams should be supported in building academies.
2. Clubs should be supported in community engagement summer and holiday rugby camps. Take you point about the head knock concerns so touch rugby could be the start for the kids.
3. Focus on building the support back up at all clubs after COVID so some marketing around this to pull fans back in.
4. More money into marketing generally if you don’t oromote and product you won’t sell it.
5. Get the World Cup scheduled for 2022 now .
6. Set up a 9s tournament that can be sold to another network.
I don’t have a magic answer but the moves we make seem to be wrong.please stick with a structure so clubs can plan.
With regards to sky what do they want be good to explicitly know their view.

[Mild Rover]

Re: New structure latest : Sun Aug 15, 2021 11:29 am  

RL is played primarily in one not very wealthy region of England and is heavily reliant on money from a medium (television) that is starting to diminish in importance and value. On top of that there is the general economic malaise that has already lasted more than a decade now and doesn’t look to be ending any time soon, with the fallout from the pandemic.

Agonising about about 2 x 10 vs 12 vs 14 is a bit like being chained to the tracks as the train speeds towards you and wondering what type of sandwich you should have for lunch.