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French RL struggling Mon Sep 27, 2021 7:02 am  

Donnyman wrote:
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Reports are that Lyon have decided to drop a division, and Toulon may not start. There is a serious Referee shortage and The junior game will be affected in that regular full games at that level may give way to short game tournaments. We have to be pretty careful about calling Toulouse "expansion" when the French game is in contraction.

I don't think TO and Catalans have any French TV money sorted either so if we are going to 2x10 which many suggest is nailed on can anyone see SKY being happy with the possibility of only eight English clubs in the top division here?? Some people need to get their head out of the clouds,......

In 2009 we had 13 top flight British SL clubs, if Toulouse and Catalans continue to take refuge here then we could end up looking at only eight English Superleague clubs and consequently no TV deal ourselves. RL Message boards this last few years have been awash with tall tales of "Expansion" including Perez's phoney NA clubs, and too short on reality.
Re: French RL struggling Mon Sep 27, 2021 7:24 am  

Leyther14 wrote:
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Good post. From13 top Uk clubs down to possibly 8! We are in challenging times getting fans packed in to established clubs should be the focus at the moment at the professional level.
Re: French RL struggling Mon Sep 27, 2021 8:08 am  

Donnyman wrote:
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Leyther14 wrote:
Good post. From13 top Uk clubs down to possibly 8! We are in challenging times getting fans packed in to established clubs should be the focus at the moment at the professional level.


Thanks for risking being trolled to death by replying.

It really comes down to the paymasters SKY. Under this current deal SKY conceded the idea that the game had to take it's chances to grow beyond it's Northern English base. IIRC it was Mr. McManus who said SKY had to have "A minimum of 9 Englsh clubs in Superleague" As it stands we have 11 and if Toulouse go up we end up with 10.

UNLESS of course Superleague is cut to 10 in which case as it stands two French clubs in Superleague leaving only eight English ones loses us the SKY deal.

When McManus made his statement he was aiming at the likes of Toronto, New York and Ottawa ( looking back it's clear the latter two applications were phoney baloney to prop up the continuance of TWP). This time it's about Toulouse and Catalans not being able to be both fitted into a 10 club SL1. However this is all notwithstanding Featherstone winning the promotion game...........

Now as this is getting complicated corrections certainly welcome, but could we see Leigh staying in Superleague somehow??
Re: French RL struggling Mon Sep 27, 2021 2:27 pm  

puroresu_boy wrote:
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Leyther14 wrote:
Good post. From13 top Uk clubs down to possibly 8! We are in challenging times getting fans packed in to established clubs should be the focus at the moment at the professional level.


The focus should be on raising the standards. You want fans to fill stadiums then what is on offer currently needs to improve ten fold.

As long as the level of quality continues to decline there is no hope getting stadiums full.

The playoffs are supposed to be the elite end of the competition and the games last week were drivel. Calling them average would be kind.
Re: French RL struggling Mon Sep 27, 2021 3:28 pm  

User avatarUllFC wrote:
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I am a fan of Catalans, they have a strong brand, good stadium and good support and I am also willing to give Toulouse their chance for the same reasons,

BUT if they can't win a French TV deal after a year where they have both topped the tables, then serious questions have to be asked where things are heading, we can't sit around forever without French TV not even putting a single Euro in.
Re: French RL struggling Mon Sep 27, 2021 3:35 pm  

User avatarwrencat1873 wrote:
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Donnyman wrote:
Reports are that Lyon have decided to drop a division, and Toulon may not start. There is a serious Referee shortage and The junior game will be affected in that regular full games at that level may give way to short game tournaments. We have to be pretty careful about calling Toulouse "expansion" when the French game is in contraction.

I don't think TO and Catalans have any French TV money sorted either so if we are going to 2x10 which many suggest is nailed on can anyone see SKY being happy with the possibility of only eight English clubs in the top division here?? Some people need to get their head out of the clouds,......

In 2009 we had 13 top flight British SL clubs, if Toulouse and Catalans continue to take refuge here then we could end up looking at only eight English Superleague clubs and consequently no TV deal ourselves. RL Message boards this last few years have been awash with tall tales of "Expansion" including Perez's phoney NA clubs, and too short on reality.


It's a very good point that you make regarding the fall from 13 UK clubs down to 8.
The all too frequent contractions are being driven by the top 4/5 clubs desperate to protect their slice of TV monies and the absolute nonsense about "improved quality" if/when SL drops to 10 clubs, belongs to the "flat earth" society.
Re: French RL struggling Mon Sep 27, 2021 5:33 pm  

Donnyman wrote:
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UllFC wrote:
I am a fan of Catalans, they have a strong brand, good stadium and good support and I am also willing to give Toulouse their chance for the same reasons,

BUT if they can't win a French TV deal after a year where they have both topped the tables, then serious questions have to be asked where things are heading, we can't sit around forever without French TV not even putting a single Euro in.


Well that's just a very good point and Lenegan said this to Toulouse In Toulouse some years back......

He also said to Toulouse that they needed to produce French players of Superleague quality as well.

We will have to see if they win the promotion spot, if they do then some SL clubs may not be at all happy....
Re: French RL struggling Mon Sep 27, 2021 5:36 pm  

Donnyman wrote:
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wrencat1873 wrote:
It's a very good point that you make regarding the fall from 13 UK clubs down to 8.
The all too frequent contractions are being driven by the top 4/5 clubs desperate to protect their slice of TV monies and the absolute nonsense about "improved quality" if/when SL drops to 10 clubs, belongs to the "flat earth" society.


I agree entirely and I do not like the top clubs getting the dispensations on marquee players,

(But nor do I like SL clubs not spending full cap)
Re: French RL struggling Mon Sep 27, 2021 8:38 pm  

User avatarorangeman wrote:
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Unlike Catalan, Toulouse, should they win promotion, will have reached the top table on merit. For all the "it's not expansion", they have played by the same rules as the rest of the clubs in the championship during this weird times and haven't been "tested". The fact that they will replace Leigh, who themselves didn't 'earn' elevation is another plus.

As for the "bad news' coming out of France, the Elite seasons are often quite shambolic, but Toulouse have wealth, a fan base and will, eventually like Catalan, be challenging English clubs for the signatures of star NRL players......as well as developing their own talent. I believe they have 10 French players in their current squad.....how many SL clubs have that many "home grown" players? Wigans new star is from Croydon and came through the London Academy...regardless of the lies told by the pies....Louis MS has 11 years at St Helens, but he's another Londoner with GF rings....it takes a long time for talent to emerge, so rather than slag of Toulouse because they aren't included on your bus pass, embrace them...they are good for the game.
Re: French RL struggling Wed Sep 29, 2021 7:10 pm  
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orangeman wrote:
Unlike Catalan, Toulouse, should they win promotion, will have reached the top table on merit. For all the "it's not expansion", they have played by the same rules as the rest of the clubs in the championship during this weird times and haven't been "tested". The fact that they will replace Leigh, who themselves didn't 'earn' elevation is another plus.

As for the "bad news' coming out of France, the Elite seasons are often quite shambolic, but Toulouse have wealth, a fan base and will, eventually like Catalan, be challenging English clubs for the signatures of star NRL players......as well as developing their own talent. I believe they have 10 French player's in their current squad......how many SL Club's have that many "home grown" players ?? Wigans new star is from Croydon and came through the London Academy...regardless of the lies told by the pies....Louis MS has 11 years at St Helens, but he's another Londoner with GF rings....it takes a long time for talent to emerge, so rather than slag of Toulouse because they aren't included on your bus pass, embrace them...they are good for the game.


I personally welcome Toulouse as I think 2 to 3 "French derbies" a season would help grow the French game & bring both some bumper crowds, however you are deliberately avoiding comparison as like for like as that does not support your agenda !

"they have 10 French player's" & the ridiculous "how many SL Club's have that many home grown player's then comparing nationality to Counties or district's is a very deliberate avoidance of comparing apples to apples !
So Toulouse have 10 French player's, the question then becomes how many SL Club's have that many English player's. Of course you could say state how many Toulouse player's are from Toulouse, but that won't suit now will it ?
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Sun 10th Oct
WSL RND: 19 St.HelensW28-0LeedsW
WSL RND: 19 FeatherstoneW22-24Hudds W
CH RND: 25 Toulouse34-12Featherstone
L1 RND: 25 Workington36-12Doncaster
Sat 9th Oct
SL RND: 28 Catalans10-12St.Helens
This is an inplay table and positions can change as matches are in play.
National Rugby League 2021 ROUND : 25
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Melbourne 24 815 316 499 42
Penrith 24 640 280 360 42
Souths 24 775 453 322 40
Manly 24 744 492 252 32
Sydney 24 636 475 161 32
Parramatta 24 566 457 109 30
Newcastle 24 428 571 -143 24
Gold Coast 24 568 553 15 20
 
Cronulla 24 512 556 -44 20
Canberra 24 481 578 -97 20
St.George 24 474 616 -142 16
NZ Warriors 24 453 624 -171 16
Wests 24 500 714 -214 16
Brisbane 24 446 695 -249 14
NQL Cowboys 24 460 748 -288 14
Canterbury 24 340 710 -370 6
This is an inplay table and positions can change as matches are in play.
Betfred Super League XXVI ROUND : 25
 PLDFADIFFPTSDIFFWP%
Catalans 23 688 398 290 38 172.86 82.61
St.Helens 21 548 229 319 32 239.30 76.19
Warrington 21 588 354 234 31 166.10 73.81
Wigan 25 387 385 2 30 100.52 60
Leeds 24 556 440 116 26 126.36 54.17
Hull KR 20 497 458 39 20 108.52 50
 
Castleford 23 439 552 -113 22 79.53 47.83
Hull FC 21 409 476 -67 17 85.92 40.48
Huddersfield 24 460 516 -56 18 89.15 37.50
Wakefield 24 482 548 -66 18 87.96 37.50
Salford 22 402 586 -184 14 68.60 31.82
Leigh 22 356 870 -514 4 40.92 9.09
This is an inplay table and positions can change as matches are in play.
Betfred Championship 2021 ROUND : 20
 PLDFADIFFPTSDIFFWP%
Toulouse 13 616 112 504 26 550 100
Featherstone 19 817 254 563 34 321.65 94.74
Halifax 19 512 323 189 26 158.51 68.42
Bradford 18 483 455 28 24 106.15 66.67
LondonB 18 504 499 5 21 101 63.89
Batley 19 525 370 155 24 141.89 63.16
 
Whitehaven 20 447 496 -49 21 90.12 52.50
York 19 470 455 15 16 103.30 42.11
Widnes 19 458 509 -51 15 89.98 39.47
Newcastle 18 381 521 -140 13 73.13 36.11
Sheffield 18 382 553 -171 13 69.08 36.11
Dewsbury 19 308 570 -262 13 54.04 34.21
Oldham 19 270 691 -421 5 39.07 13.16
Swinton 20 354 719 -365 3 49.24 7.50
This is an inplay table and positions can change as matches are in play.
Betfred League One 2021 ROUND : 22
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Barrow 17 596 275 321 27 216.73 79.41
Workington 15 471 310 161 21 151.94 70
Doncaster 18 503 400 103 24 125.75 66.67
Keighley 19 640 399 241 25 160.40 65.79
Crusaders 18 553 438 115 22 126.26 61.11
Hunslet 19 572 466 106 20 122.75 52.63
 
Rochdale 17 505 488 17 17 103.48 50
Coventry 17 407 460 -53 12 88.48 35.29
LondonS 18 292 577 -285 7 50.61 19.44
West Wales 18 208 896 -688 1 23.21 2.78
This is an inplay table and positions can change as matches are in play.
Betfred Womens Super League 2021 ROUND : 9
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St.HelensW 7 370 36 334 12 1,027.78 85.71
WiganW 6 222 64 158 10 346.88 83.33
YorkW 6 186 102 84 8 182.35 66.67
CastlefordW 6 166 96 70 8 172.92 66.67
BradfordW 8 158 264 -106 6 59.85 37.50
Hudds W 7 104 288 -184 4 36.11 28.57
 
Wire W 8 150 334 -184 4 44.91 25
FeatherstoneW 8 122 338 -216 4 36.09 25
LeedsW 7 364 38 326 14 957.89 100
WakefieldW 7 50 332 -282 0 15.06 0
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