Re: A message from a Sale supporter : Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:53 pm  

Shark J wrote:

Some of the comments on here are laughable. I had to check the date then to realise it wasn't the early 1900s and it was in fact 2012.

Somebody used the term Dinosaur. That sums up some of the views perfectly.

If you think the divide between League and Union and indeed the working and middle classes is still exactly how it used to be you are absolutely warped.

Here's the harsh reality - I don't mean this in a snobby way as I like both codes, but a lot of Union fans don't actually give League the time of day. Now before you quote me on that one line let me make it clear what I mean. They don't think about League, it doesn't pass their minds, they get on supporting their own team, their own sport. It's not just me who feels this way, this comment I'm about to use is used on this, the Wigan forum and the Union thread too - but a lot of League fans have a chip on their shoulder when it comes to Union. It's a shame, as no Union fan I've ever met has had a bad word to say about the other code. As a United fan (Manchester United, but of course being from Salford you all support them and know who they are anyway) I know exactly what it's like. Stockport County fans absolutely hate us and City. Yet you ask a single United fan to name a Stockport player and they couldn't. Not through ignorance, not through dislike, but because Stockport simply don't effect their lives, it's not a club that doesn't pass through their minds. A lot of League fans seem to take a negative stand from the start. All because of a period that even their Grandfathers would be too young to remember. I think a very small minority of League fans care more about being working class than they care about their team. So what? You're working class? Good for you. So am I, it's not something I care about though or feel the need to go on about. Football is historically a working class sport, isn't it? You don't hear the fans going on about it all the time. Maybe that's to do with the fact times change. You're not telling me working class Joe pays £110 for a ticket at Arsenal every week are you? Has a corporate box at Old Trafford? My mates are all working class, yet some have done well for themselves, got 2 houses, 2 cars. Surely on paper they're middle class? Again, times change, things expand and develop. It's not as black and white as it once was. So no, the divide isn't the same as it once was.

If you're using historic references and judging Union as a sport for the middle classes down south, then fine. But in all my years supporting Sale I've never come across one toff, one person with plumbs in their mouth, one person who hates Rugby League. Over on our forum we've got Catalans, Wigan, Salford, Warrington and St Helens fans. Bitterness is a terrible thing. Whether you've been brought up to hate Union or whatever, fine. That's your life. But don't be coming on here telling us you know more about Sale fans than the Sale fans themselves without checking your facts first. I understand some people have had personal interactions with the League and Union divide, I'm not coming on here to tell you you're wrong. If that's happened to you, then it has, and it's a shame. I'm not thick enough to believe that elitism doesn't still exist in some areas. Personally though I couldn't give a poop. Granted there aren't many Sale or Rugby Union fans where I live compared to Football. But for me it's about the class on the field, not off it.

As I've said on here before - it's lucky a few of you are obviously keyboard warriors. As the majority are very pleasant and have been welcoming to Sale fans in the flesh and online. iBozz is a good guy and a gent, so to take what he said, knowing full well it was a nice, welcoming message and turning it into your own paranoia about Union still killing League is just not on.

Hang about wasn't it only in the 1980's when Rugby Union were still banning players from their sport for life if they had played rugby league?

Re: A message from a Sale supporter : Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:04 pm  

Ave It! wrote:

Hang about wasn't it only in the 1980's when Rugby Union were still banning players from their sport for life if they had played rugby league?

Taken from the Official Twickers site

Amateurism in rugby football (after the great split of 1895)
Rugby union would officially remain an amateur sport for the next 100 years.

The union authorities placed severe sanctions on associations with rugby league. Even playing an amateur rugby league game was sufficient to receive a ban from rugby union.

Union players who went to play professional league were banned for life, even from attending rugby union matches as supporters.

Payment for expenses was often permitted, however. The ‘amateur’ 1908 Australian rugby union tourists to the British Isles received payment of 21 shillings a week.

This was more than twice the amount that players on the following season's ‘professional’ Great Britain rugby league tour of Australia received as weekly wages!

Re: A message from a Sale supporter : Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:13 pm  

Ave It! wrote:

Hang about wasn't it only in the 1980's when Rugby Union were still banning players from their sport for life if they had played rugby league?

Ave It,i had a young lad playing for me when i was coaching a local amateur league team who was threatened by his headmaster that if he carried on playing league in his free time,he would be banned from taking part in any sport at his school,footbball? ok,basketball? ok just not Rugby league as they played union at their school.That was in the late 90s.The stories go on and on about their goings on,but now its all forgotten,well it ai`nt in my eyes.

Re: A message from a Sale supporter : Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:24 pm  

To you Sale guys..............I'll tell you why I'm a 'dinosaur', and why I still care about what happened in my Great Grandfather's time.

Because Rugby Union and the Establishment in general shafted 'working class' people then and continue to shaft them to this day.
That is, if there were enough jobs to constitute a working class! A government run by fooking Old Etonians and Oxbridge Graduates.

We're all in it together? Fookin' Bollox, neither in government or rugby.

Rugby Union in the north of england has, and always will represent 'the establishment'. It runs far deeper than mere sport. Anyone who is aware of cultural history will be aware of it.

Hence the examples on this board about the BBC and Univerisities' attitude towards our sport and our demography. One of superiority and condesention.

...............and when, if ever, did a smokey wind blow through the leafy suburbs of Cheshire?

Have you ever wondered why the Catalan Dragons are so welcome in our League?.....................During the war the game of Rugby League was banned by the Vichy government as being representative of subversives. After the war, 'Our' game was not allowed to use the word 'Rugby', hence RL was known as Jeux a treize (Game for thirteen).

History runs deep and for good reason. We would be fools to forget it. Unfortunately, Salford RL is run by fools and the major reason we find ourselves in the current unenviable position.

Re: A message from a Sale supporter : Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:28 pm  

I too would want us to own & be the sole tenant of the Salford City red stadium. Our club has been dying a slow death, we needed a partner not the perfect partner but one that watches & understands the type of game we play.
I am a Salford fan of 30 odd years but welcome Sale & hope we can attract new supporters for our club, if we don't it is because people don't think our game is good enough.
Too many go on about how good our game is, well if it that good we have nothing to worry about.

I know the history of Salford, likewise Swinton, Oldham Rochdale to name a few, all have proud histories but were unable to achieve, just take a look at the clubs now. Some on the forum criticizing every word spoken when discussing or debating with Sale, tell me the alternative master plan? How the working man stereotypes himself, no wonder down south they think we all have flat caps & clogs. If any of our fans watch football you just might be stood next a person from Sale, you know the one with two heads & he says tally ho. The same people criticizing the club for moving please tell me how you would have kept the club at the top playing from the willows & where you think we would have been in 5 years even less?

No I am not happy with what as happened to our great club, but I am prepared not to live in the past & move forward in a difficult times, where companies sports clubs bigger than the mighty Salford, are going under at the rate of knots. We have a chance to embrace the opportunity, Maybe we will attract Sale fans to watch our great game, after all we believe Rugby league to be a far superior game than union.
Standby for trying to remain positive!!

Re: A message from a Sale supporter : Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:29 pm  

Rooted Red wrote:

To you Sale guys..............I'll tell you why I'm a 'dinosaur', and why I still care about what happened in my Great Grandfather's time.

Because Rugby Union and the Establishment in general shafted 'working class' people then and continue to shaft them to this day.
That is, if there were enough jobs to constitute a working class! A government run by fooking Old Etonians and Oxbridge Graduates.

We're all in it together? Fookin' Bollox, neither in government or rugby.

Rugby Union in the north of england has, and always will represent 'the establishment'. It runs far deeper than mere sport. Anyone who is aware of cultural history will be aware of it.

Hence the examples on this board about the BBC and Univerisities' attitude towards our sport and our demography. One of superiority and condesention.

...............and when, if ever, did a smokey wind blow through the leafy suburbs of Cheshire?

Have you ever wondered why the Catalan Dragons are so welcome in our League?.....................During the war the game of Rugby League was banned by the Vichy government as being representative of subversives. After the war, 'Our' game was not allowed to use the word 'Rugby', hence RL was known as Jeux a treize (Game for thirteen).

History runs deep and for good reason. We would be fools to forget it. Unfortunately, Salford RL is run by fools and the major reason we find ourselves in the current unenviable position.

Quality,

Re: A message from a Sale supporter : Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:33 pm  

Ave It! wrote:

Your top paragraph sums up perfectly why we should not trust Sale Sharks and Rugby Union. Times haven't changed as much as you think, they think they're better than us and will try to block things just like the union captain you allude to did, but a much bigger scale. And with the weakness of our management and lack of backbone, then they will walk all over us. I honestly hand heart cannot see how Sale coming will have any benefit to us and I've listened to countless arguments on here, still nothing has changed my mind. We need to be wary of these leeches and I for one will not be welcoming them with open arms.

That story I recalled took place nearly 20 years ago - some of our players were barely out of pampers back then! I only mentioned it to show that I am aware that historically the two games have been at loggerheads and have first hand experience of bigoted behaviour by some union people. However, this was nearly 20 years ago (1994 to be precise) before the abolition of 'shamateurism' and, in my opinion at least, the world has moved on.

Dozens of rugby clubs across the country (including my own) co-habit successfully without conflict; hundreds if not thousands of players freely enjoy playing and watching both codes (as I do!).

The bigotry and insularity that you continue to allude to are largely consigned to the past. Ironically though, in seeking to rake up old arguments you are actually coming across as being quite bigoted and insular.

Sale will be sharing the fantastic stadium with us. We can either accept this, be open minded and welcome the Sharks fans into the fold (some may even choose to support our team too). Or we can put up the metaphorical shutters, portray ourselves (inaccurately IMO) as being insular and bigoted and enter a conflict situation (and given your opinion of our club's management, you may wish to question whether this is a particularly sensible idea).

Re: A message from a Sale supporter : Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:38 pm  

H's D wrote:

Chill gentlemen.
As some of you may be aware I am also a Sale supporter and regular poster on the equivalent of this board.

iBozz has just offered to meet up for a drink pre-or post match. He is not intent on any form of subversion.

Anyone who has an inkling of the origins of League has a large degree of sympathy with those on here who still have significant abhorrance of all things union.
We ourselves often refer to those days as shamateurism.

But in all honesty most of us weren't alive then, is it not time to move on ( whilst of course treading carefully and watchfully?)
It's a different millenium, most of us watch Superleague and many attend the odd game. Both games can thrive in the North West.
We mutually have far more to gain by conversing and helping improve public transport provision, ordinary supporter facilities and shuttle services to Salford City Stadium.

Yes occasionally we might tread on toes by being indelicate but insult is not intended. For example adopting 'Dirty Old Town ' was suggested years ago on our board during the PSA and Seabass years - originally because Sale translates as 'dirty' in French -it's a northern anthem, not exclusively a Salford one!).

There is an opportunity here to work together in areas which will benefit all supporters.
Steotypes are just that; forget them .
Share a pint pre or post match and I think you will find we have far more in common than we can express on here.
Besides....... iBozz is clearly buying!

Well said that man. Although as Dirty old Town was written in Salford about Salford I'll take objection to that point but will excuse your 'indelicate' behaviour on this occasion.

Most Salford people are welcoming and open minded, so I hope you aren't put off coming to a few of our games.

Re: A message from a Sale supporter : Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:45 pm  

Prestwich Red wrote:

A few points from your response

1/Exactly and thats what pi$$es me off as well.

2/You really are matching all the sterotypes aren't you

3/Ever heard of The Lowry ?
The other is the Salford Arts Theatre.
There were a lot more at one stage but unfortuntely they have closed down, probably due to the fact that Common Salford folk dont understand that sort of thing
As for Amateur there are plenty, I wont list them but just google it and you will find them.

4/Its not a huge interest although I do go to the theatre ocassionally and yes as you can see I do know them

If you had taken a minute to even look into what we have in Salford and not just look at the fact we have a Stadium then I might have taken you a bit more seriously.
You never know you might even like what you see.

Either deliberately or otherwise, you've completely twisted and misinterpreted the man's point to suit your own agenda.

Snobbery cuts both ways.

Re: A message from a Sale supporter : Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:46 pm  

Wayward Fan wrote:

Either deliberately or otherwise, you've completely twisted and misinterpreted the man's point to suit your own agenda.

Snobbery cuts both ways.