Re: he is coming : Sat Oct 09, 2010 6:54 am  

I'm with the Optimist on this one.

In an ideal world our beloved team would play faultless open Rugby and leave us all oo-ing and ahh-ing, and maybe 5 or 10 years ago, the 'caution-to-wind' style of rugby was a valid option. The reason it doesn't really work in the long term is because the way the modern game has developed. Defense and tackling have completely changed, players roles have completely changed, focus on error-free rugby (As it statistically shows fewer errors = winning team) and a multitude of other reasons.

The opposition play the stats and pressure game, constantly trying to force you on the back foot, and make you play in your own half. Playing any other type of rugby apart from trying to do the same to your opposition and 9 times out of 10 you will lose. Especially as we don't have a team of international stars. That isn't to say that open rugby doesn't exist, there is just a time and a place for it.

If you want to see Salford rise as a club again, I'm betting that you will have to witness more 'tactical wins' than 'caution-to-the-wind' victories. At the end of the day it's about those 2 points, and most fans would be happy with that regardless of how the team come by them.

I understand your argument JJ, but for a team like Salford, atm, anything but trying to match your opponent tactically will result in defeat. I'd rather see Salford compete than throw the ball around like a hot potato and get battered.

Re: he is coming : Sat Oct 09, 2010 7:38 am  

I think this is brilliant we are now changing tacktotally to keep this thread going strong.

I think most Salford fans would like to see what I call hot potato rugby where we throw the ball about and confuse the opposition into mistakes but in todays game that isn't going to be much good. I think all of us would settle for making the top 6 next season with regimented rugby in a game up until the point we have the game in the bag and then the players of the likes of Reg, Patten and Smith given a free hand to cut loose.

Re: he is coming : Sat Oct 09, 2010 7:47 am  

Great replies fellas.
I appreciate what both of you say.
I know that my thoughts are idealistic, and probably unworkable thru most games, as yes we'd get mullered more often than not.
I just love to see rugby played that way (no doubt we all do).
I obviously belong to a different era and am showing my age
Anyhow, I'm glad I asked the question and have got decent reasoned answers (not that I expected anything less)
Something to discuss further during the off season ?
cheers
Col.
BTW Optimist, knowing me, I'd go for option B, make a complete hash of it, then switch to option A ... bomb that and settle for option C

Re: he is coming : Sat Oct 09, 2010 10:50 am  

Jim Jalfrezi wrote:

Five drives and a kick do nothing for me whatsoever, infact it's a bigger turn-off than hairy armpits on the female species.
Col

Never been to Blackburn then I guess..

The optimist wrote:I love attacking flair rugby but there is a time and a place for it

Yes there is , The place for it is the Willows , and the time will be Fridays at 8pm.
5 drives and a kick won't get the crowd unless the 5 drives result in the prone broken bodies of our opposition
The emphasis of our signings have altered from ' workhorse ' to attck minded , we have gifted standoff(s) a winger who can score from 90 metres out and an agenda from the club to make every home game a special occassion.
So 5 drives , or attack , attack , attack ...

Re: he is coming : Sat Oct 09, 2010 10:56 am  

middleman wrote:

Never been to Blackburn then I guess..

Yes there is , The place for it is the Willows , and the time will be Fridays at 8pm.
5 drives and a kick won't get the crowd unless the 5 drives result in the prone broken bodies of our opposition
The emphasis of our signings have altered from ' workhorse ' to attack minded , we have gifted standoff(s) a winger who can score from 90 metres out and an agenda from the club to make every home game a special occasion.
So 5 drives , or attack , attack , attack ...

To go for Attack, Attack, Attack and nothing else I would suggest will only end in tears. Whilst we have brought in some good attacking options we have lost our two best defensive players and will for me struggle up the middle of the pitch to stop the opposition at the PTB.

I would be happy if we had more than one plan week in week out as we have had for the past couple of years, I would much rather a huge down town on the 3rd tackle than a hurried kick by a player not expecting the ball on the 5Th, much better in my eyes to kick the ball dead in goal and face up on the 20 than kick with unerring accuracy to the opposition full back and when Ratchford is on the park we must make full use of the highest bombs I have seen in many a year.

Re: he is coming : Sat Oct 09, 2010 11:10 am  

Michigan red wrote:

To go for Attack, Attack, Attack and nothing else I would suggest will only end in tears. Whilst we have brought in some good attacking options we have lost our two best defensive players and will for me struggle up the middle of the pitch to stop the opposition at the PTB.

I would be happy if we had more than one plan week in week out as we have had for the past couple of years, I would much rather a huge down town on the 3rd tackle than a hurried kick by a player not expecting the ball on the 5Th, much better in my eyes to kick the ball dead in goal and face up on the 20 than kick with unerring accuracy to the opposition full back and when Ratchford is on the park we must make full use of the highest bombs I have seen in many a year.

it would be nice to play fast open rugby , but against some teams you just have to grind out ,what they say are ugly wins ,i would be quite happy for us to play bad and win ,than play fast free flowing rugby and lose, the proof will be there next season , we have now a squad capable of the top six , i know it will take a bit of time for them to gell ,but when they do you have got to fancy our chances against anybody ,

Re: he is coming : Sat Oct 09, 2010 3:32 pm  

We haven't played free flowing rugby under McRae at all and look where that has got us? When we beat Saints at home we did it by throwing the ball about, I'd rather see us play expansive rugby and lose than go on playing the same stuff we do now and still keep getting beat.

Re: he is coming : Sat Oct 09, 2010 5:29 pm  

dann_salford wrote:

We haven't played free flowing rugby under McRae at all and look where that has got us? When we beat Saints at home we did it by throwing the ball about, I'd rather see us play expansive rugby and lose than go on playing the same stuff we do now and still keep getting beat.

At the Wakefield Game pre-match Steve Simms was giving a pre match build up talk in the sponsors lounge, going into tactics with lots of buzz words 'respecting the opposition' building a platform ' etc

someone asked Dan Holdsworth what his tactics would be if he were playing ),

" Score more points than they do ...."


At the players awards evening it was the Saint's home game they replayed ( well tried to
not a game where we spent 40 minutes shoving it up our jumpers ' building a platform ' .

Re: he is coming : Sat Oct 09, 2010 6:00 pm  

Was going to provide an essay, complete with plenty of examples of why the 'building a platform before killing the opposition' approach is so successful. (Wayne Bennett inspired)

But as convinced I am of the success of this style of RL and why it isn't a boring version of the game, I'm just going to point out that without the right materials you'll struggle to build a house. Our 2011 house has the bricks, the roof and a few decorative touches. BUT, under pressure it'll all break down and blow a way for in the modern game, you need that foundation! Dan Holdsworth knows this, despite his opportunistic comedy cliche!

However, I'm happy to be wrong. Prove me wrong Dan.

Re: he is coming : Sat Oct 09, 2010 8:33 pm  

dann_salford wrote:

We haven't played free flowing rugby under McRae at all and look where that has got us? When we beat Saints at home we did it by throwing the ball about, I'd rather see us play expansive rugby and lose than go on playing the same stuff we do now and still keep getting beat.

Fair play to you Dan if that would be your attitude. Unfortunately, these forums would become almost unbearable with the fair-weather fans (And John from Salford) calling for regime change, booing, insulting, personal digs etc etc because the team loses.

Besides, saying that you'd rather watch a team of middle-range players attempt to throw the ball around like the Harlem Globetrotters (TM), all the time knocking-on and making poor tactical decisions, than watch a side get 2 points in a grafted, tactical match. Is a bit like saying you'd rather watch 'male interest films' where the facial is missed.