Re: Some home truths....this may hurt : Tue Oct 11, 2016 7:11 pm  

rubber duckie wrote:

Your last sentence... That's silly. We just won a LLS with Evans and Penny!
If a team has the best pack, them they will win. The quality of the backs define by how much that is.
We need a pack that dominates. Our bench v Wigan was 2nd best, so we became bridesmaids.

...and so say I

The last time we won the Challenge Cup, our props were Carvel, Hill, Morley and Wood. 3 of these were past their prime, and at the ar5e end of their careers (but still great players). Compare this to what we'll have at our disposal next year. Hill and Cooper, quality. The rest, a concoction of average, not yet good enough, not big enough, injury prone (yet we still bought him) and a Wigan cast off.

If we don't arrest the prop issue (THERE IS AN ISSUE), we'll struggle. Leeds and Stains will be nowhere near as poor sides as they were, and Wigan will have more bodies back.

I just pray that Hill doesn't pick up an injury. If he does, we may as well give up.
Houston, we have a problem.

The signing of a winger(s) is the least of our problems. We have 2 on our books, that score tries for fun. Trouble is, our pigheaded coach doesn't like playing them.

Re: Some home truths....this may hurt : Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:36 pm  

I miss the 2011 style rugby we played. Off the cuff, no plan just go with it. Combine that with good defense and it steads well

Re: Some home truths....this may hurt : Wed Oct 12, 2016 12:02 pm  

Not sure what we are going to get more from Cooper than we are from Sims. If Sims gets a slagging off on here then Cooper will only have a 2 week grace before he is fair game as there stats are very similar
Cooper - Hit Ups 283, Clean Breaks 1,Off Loads 14
Sims - Hit ups 381, Clean Breaks 1, Off Loads 64
After watching Cooper for all his games in the NRL and before they are very similar players either will break the line, but both will get you a quick play the ball.
Cooper doesn't off load but Sims will, Cooper goes in at first receiver and passes before the line, Sims doesn't.
They will both be great for us or next season in very different ways than Hill. Hill makes great yards, is a penalty machine (especially near our own sticks with holding down) but is really slow at the play he ball. Very Different styles and great a great mix.
Not looked at Crosby's stats as he hasn't signed but seems more of a Hill than a Sims
I am looking forward to seeing them all work together as they form a good mix.

Re: Some home truths....this may hurt : Wed Oct 12, 2016 12:38 pm  

Coop has been playing in nrl against tougher defenses so to compare stats could be a little misleading.

Re: Some home truths....this may hurt : Wed Oct 12, 2016 12:41 pm  

Would also say that successfully clubs have had world class centres in the teams. Lyon newlove connoly king etc I personally do jot believe that that's a coincidence and still stand by my statement that with evens n penny in the team we will win love all. Yes packs eine dominant is important however to win a game we have to score more than the other team.

Re: Some home truths....this may hurt : Wed Oct 12, 2016 12:46 pm  

marshman777 wrote:

Not sure what we are going to get more from Cooper than we are from Sims. If Sims gets a slagging off on here then Cooper will only have a 2 week grace before he is fair game as there stats are very similar
Cooper - Hit Ups 283, Clean Breaks 1,Off Loads 14
Sims - Hit ups 381, Clean Breaks 1, Off Loads 64
After watching Cooper for all his games in the NRL and before they are very similar players either will break the line, but both will get you a quick play the ball.
Cooper doesn't off load but Sims will, Cooper goes in at first receiver and passes before the line, Sims doesn't.
They will both be great for us or next season in very different ways than Hill. Hill makes great yards, is a penalty machine (especially near our own sticks with holding down) but is really slow at the play he ball. Very Different styles and great a great mix.
Not looked at Crosby's stats as he hasn't signed but seems more of a Hill than a Sims
I am looking forward to seeing them all work together as they form a good mix.

Unfair about Hill being a penalty machine as most seem to be caused by the fatigue he gets due to his ridiculously high work rate and long minutes.

He will be more effective without such a weak bench.

Incidentally is anyone aware there is another full-time prop right now in the first team squad and that was definitely the most bizarre signing of many years.

Re: Some home truths....this may hurt : Wed Oct 12, 2016 12:53 pm  

Dezzies_right_hook wrote:

Would also say that successfully clubs have had world class centres in the teams. Lyon newlove connoly king etc I personally do jot believe that that's a coincidence and still stand by my statement that with evens n penny in the team we will win love all. Yes packs eine dominant is important however to win a game we have to score more than the other team.

haven't your read my post?
We won at Hull FC with Evans and Penny in the team. It was in effect a cup final, and treated by both teams, the fans and Sky TV as one.
We won the LLS sheild.
You could however correct it and say we won't win love all 'AGAIN'. Then it's only your opinion so I cannot say otherwise.

Re: Some home truths....this may hurt : Thu Oct 13, 2016 7:15 am  

You're a really good side, but missing Sandow, Gidley, Westwood, Currie, for key moments at the business end has cost you , Gidley hasn't looked the same player since getting smashed at Wembley. Sandown is a shadow of early season pre injury form, when they as a pair were the best in the League. You've lost the best 2nd rower in SL, as well as your talisman Benny. My good you've done brilliant to get so close . It's heartbreaking I know but don't talk yourselfs into believing your not good enough. You maybe need to buy some class at centre and I'd bin Sims, brings very little, and no grunt or line bend which he should be as a prop. Wire you are a bit of bad luck away from being a chmpuon side.

Re: Some home truths....this may hurt : Thu Oct 13, 2016 8:07 pm  

marshman777 wrote:

Not sure what we are going to get more from Cooper than we are from Sims. If Sims gets a slagging off on here then Cooper will only have a 2 week grace before he is fair game as there stats are very similar
Cooper - Hit Ups 283, Clean Breaks 1,Off Loads 14
Sims - Hit ups 381, Clean Breaks 1, Off Loads 64
After watching Cooper for all his games in the NRL and before they are very similar players either will break the line, but both will get you a quick play the ball.
Cooper doesn't off load but Sims will, Cooper goes in at first receiver and passes before the line, Sims doesn't.
They will both be great for us or next season in very different ways than Hill. Hill makes great yards, is a penalty machine (especially near our own sticks with holding down) but is really slow at the play he ball. Very Different styles and great a great mix.
Not looked at Crosby's stats as he hasn't signed but seems more of a Hill than a Sims
I am looking forward to seeing them all work together as they form a good mix.

Cooper also has an average gain of 9.2m over 283 carries. There are only 11 players in SL better than that (13 if you count those with less than 10 carries), and the only forward in that 11 is Clark. Hill's work rate beats Cooper, but I think they will be fighting next season for most metres made. For comparison, Hill's is 8.2m, Sims' is 6.7m and Crosby's is 7.7m.

Re: Some home truths....this may hurt : Thu Oct 13, 2016 9:06 pm  

Jaywire wrote:

Cooper also has an average gain of 9.2m over 283 carries. There are only 11 players in SL better than that (13 if you count those with less than 10 carries), and the only forward in that 11 is Clark. Hill's work rate beats Cooper, but I think they will be fighting next season for most metres made. For comparison, Hill's is 8.2m, Sims' is 6.7m and Crosby's is 7.7m.

What a pack that would be, I really hope it happens.