Re: 2017 and Tony Smith : Thu Feb 23, 2017 6:41 pm  

I'm not sure Wane would do quite as well at another club. He's part of a Wigan set up that's Wigan through and through. I think it's unfair if you don't include the likes of Radlinski in contributing to Wane's success.

If Wane was at another club he'd surely do quite well, just maybe not quite as well as inspiring Wigan-produced players in a Wigan system to the sort of ground-out, war of attrition victories we've become accustomed to under his tenure.

Re: 2017 and Tony Smith : Thu Feb 23, 2017 6:56 pm  

* years ago we were a an absolute joke, since Smith has taken over we have had one of the most successful periods in the clubs history, we were 10 points and a bit of luck away from sweeping the lot. Madness to suggest change

Re: 2017 and Tony Smith : Thu Feb 23, 2017 10:43 pm  

Mark wrote:

* years ago we were a an absolute joke, since Smith has taken over we have had one of the most successful periods in the clubs history, we were 10 points and a bit of luck away from sweeping the lot. Madness to suggest change

But we didn't sweep the lot. We failed to win the GF at the 7th time of asking.

Re: 2017 and Tony Smith : Fri Feb 24, 2017 10:34 am  

Wires71 wrote:

But we didn't sweep the lot. We failed to win the GF at the 7th time of asking.

o would add that we lost in a similar fashion or for the same reasons as we usually do. its no coincidense we rarely close out big games.

as I have mentioned smith has been great for us as a club but to basically give him an open ended contract is crazy and still stinks of little club mentality that getting to a final is good and makes the season a success. top their teams only count winning as a success.

Re: 2017 and Tony Smith : Fri Feb 24, 2017 11:07 am  

Why do people keep going on about history as a reason to retain Smith as coach? History is irrelevant, look at manchester city or chelsea in football, as soon as you get the right owner and you can compete for players, you need to be winning..

Smith has had the most freedom and financial backing out of any coach in the league since he took over.

Zero Grand finals win...

Shaun Wane has regularly out coached him. It's time for a change if this trophyless streak continues.

Re: 2017 and Tony Smith : Fri Feb 24, 2017 11:23 am  

ChiswickWire wrote:

I agree with the Wenger comparisons that have been made. My big concern is that we seem to be satisfied with second or "improving" - there's only one metric that counts - winning. In the last 4 seasons we haven't won anything. LLS is nice but let's be honest the top rank trophies are the CC and SL GF.

The culture of the club is good but seems a bit soft to me - we don't seem to hate losing or fear failure as much as Wane's Wigan.

The reality is that we need to win a major trophy this season or we need to start thinking about a change. At the minute it feels like an Arsenal situation where the manager is so in charge he's lost all threat to his position.

I'm also wary of reading too much into last weekend - we played well in the similar game in 15 and had a stinker of a season.

Anyway - let's hope we take off from last Saturday and are chanting Smith Forever at OT in October!

We have deservedly not won either of the big two trophies for five years because we simply haven't been good enough.

When we knew Morley Carvell Cooper Hodgson Wood and MMonaghan were all leaving (not that long after King and Solomona left as well) our planning of the squad was abysmal. Then Briers retired as well.

We were left with a team that had some brilliant individuals but as a whole package we've been good but not great and at times just average. Deservedly finished 6th the year before and I was only expecting a little better last season because our props were powderpuff for half the game relying on 60 minutes from Hill and Sims and then just making do with whatever tripe or young lads came off the bench is not going to win any big trophies. Plus the lack of true centres at the club and a load of back who are Jack of all positions, masters of none.

I think people get a bit carried away because we have individuals of the calibre of Hill and IMO the best player in the league (maybe alongside Bateman) in Clark, and a little bit of the hangover from the excellent team we had from 2009-2012, people expect us to win things. But I don't think our whole package has good but not great of late. I think we did remarkably well, and it doesn't say a lot for the rest of the league, to reach both finals and top the league table last year.

This year we look much more likely to be a challenge for the two big trophies. Last Saturday I thought the balance of our FB and Wingers looked good and obviously we have a true ball playing half for once. But I still think we're lacking in some areas.

Re: 2017 and Tony Smith : Fri Feb 24, 2017 11:30 am  

Ron wrote:

Why do people keep going on about history as a reason to retain Smith as coach? History is irrelevant, look at manchester city or chelsea in football, as soon as you get the right owner and you can compete for players, you need to be winning..

Smith has had the most freedom and financial backing out of any coach in the league since he took over.

Zero Grand finals win...

Shaun Wane has regularly out coached him. It's time for a change if this trophyless streak continues.

It's only 'time for change' if you have an idea who could be brought in who would be better. It's hard to think of anyone who is more likely to win an SL title for us. Wane works in the Wigan way of things, he won't go anywhere, and I wouldn't want to be playing his style anyway. Daryl Powell looks promising but has won sod all. Cunningham? See Wane. McDermott? - Done a lot at Leeds but their fans want shut, basing his past success on Sinfield, Peacock and the rest, not the coach. I suppose you'll tell me that we should look at Australia but, apart from McGuire's two seasons at the Pies, what Aussie coach has had much success here since John Monie in the 1990s?

Re: 2017 and Tony Smith : Fri Feb 24, 2017 11:49 am  

Asgardian13 wrote:

It's only 'time for change' if you have an idea who could be brought in who would be better. It's hard to think of anyone who is more likely to win an SL title for us. Wane works in the Wigan way of things, he won't go anywhere, and I wouldn't want to be playing his style anyway. Daryl Powell looks promising but has won sod all. Cunningham? See Wane. McDermott? - Done a lot at Leeds but their fans want shut, basing his past success on Sinfield, Peacock and the rest, not the coach. I suppose you'll tell me that we should look at Australia but, apart from McGuire's two seasons at the Pies, what Aussie coach has had much success here since John Monie in the 1990s?

Since Smith has taken over, two aussie coaches have won grand finals... there will be a lot of coaches out there that if you gave them the backing Smith has received would have gone one better in grand finals.

Re: 2017 and Tony Smith : Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:07 pm  

Ron wrote:

Since Smith has taken over, two aussie coaches have won grand finals... there will be a lot of coaches out there that if you gave them the backing Smith has received would have gone one better in grand finals.

Looking at our squad at the start of last season did you honestly believe we were good enough to win the LLS and make both finals? Then subtract Mitchell Dodds...
The one complaint that I think can legitimately be laid is the lack of succession planning.

Re: 2017 and Tony Smith : Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:51 pm  

Captain Hook wrote:

Looking at our squad at the start of last season did you honestly believe we were good enough to win the LLS and make both finals? Then subtract Mitchell Dodds...
The one complaint that I think can legitimately be laid is the lack of succession planning.

It doesn't matter... he has had the finances and the time. If we don't have good enough players it is down to the coach, and if the players aren't performing it is down to the coach.