: Tue Mar 17, 2009 8:59 pm  

The Angry Pirate wrote:

Were Driver A & B on the same pay??....

Seriously, there could be some at Wire looking at others and thinking 'He's on twice what I'm on, and he's awful...why should I bother??'...

Same basic, but guess who was top of the list when overtime came up?

[Answer - it was me!]

: Tue Mar 17, 2009 8:59 pm  

Who was it at Hull KR who has just signed a new deal? Was it Newton?

How long was his contract when he first signed for them?

: Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:01 pm  

Robbie Rotten wrote:

Who was it at Hull KR who has just signed a new deal? Was it Newton?

How long was his contract when he first signed for them?

Yeah, right on both counts.

: Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:12 pm  

JWP wrote:

Yeah, right on both counts.

I was just wondering because it seems he's come over and earned his new deal, although it's always better to plan for the long term, he's come over on a short(ish) deal, played very well and earned his new deal which will tie him down for how long, three more years, was it?

Just going off Sally's post on the first page, Newton came over with a fairly low reputation, when compared to his former teammate King anyway, and he's come over to a club with big ambitions, and quite obviously matched their ambitions and earned himself a new deal. It's always hard to tell with these things, but a lot of people say if we're going overseas, we should sign players like Dobson, at a good age with a low reputation; players just looking to play footy (sounds so Aussie, for some reason). This seems to be something we're getting wrong quite often, we've signed players like Hicks, who have come over, impressed and although he's old, he could be on track to earn a new deal. But then we've signed players like King, Mona's and Vinnie Anderson, it might just be me, but they've not impressed half as much as I was expecting them to do, whereas Hicks has in a way, over-impressed.

I know big names get the crowds in, but I'd like to think if we had a well-managed, hard working side with ambitions to match the club, then we'd have a side competing for honours, which I feel would bring in bigger crowds.

For me, although it's harder to plan long-term, it's better to give players shorter contracts, and make them earn extensions. Keep them on their toes, then once you know that they have the commitment, give them a longer deal, like Westwood, it just seems that with players like King, Monaghan and Vanderson, who all signed for 3 years+ (I think so anyway), that they're happy earning their salary and aren't matching that on the field.

: Tue Mar 17, 2009 10:08 pm  

mark_m wrote:

I would sincerely hope not. Let me get this right; you are saying professional sportsmen do it purely for the money?

Are you saying that the vast majority of the population work purely for the money?

: Tue Mar 17, 2009 10:14 pm  

behind the stick wrote:

Are you saying that the vast majority of the population work purely for the money?

This may come as a surprise to you but many people would place job satisfaction, recognition, enjoyment, working as part of a team and pride in what they are doing as being more important than money. Money is there just to pay the bills. And those are just factors of 'everyday' jobs and not that of a professional sportsman who (should) have a host of other reasons... maybe competitiveness and desire to succeed?

Put it this way, if all the Warrington players are here solely just to pick up a wage we will never win anything. That just isn't motivation enough.

: Tue Mar 17, 2009 10:32 pm  

The Angry Pirate wrote:

That's true, but I think in most people's cases, if they performed as badly in their jobs as most of the Wire team presently are, they would probably be sacked by now for gross incompetence!!

That's a simple misnomer though, the job of a Rugby player isn't just to play on a game day, that's the pinnacle of their weeks work.

The Angry Pirate wrote:

Sports teams are a totally different kettle of fish, simply because they are getting the rare opportunity to do a job they actually love, and indeed a job that's rewards include the possible adulation of thousands....

That's a fans perspective of wanting to be a sportsman and idolising what they do, who they are or who they play for. In reality most sportsmen are good at their chosen sport and they are rewarded for their level of competence. They no doubt work hard to get where they are and to get better, but so do lots of other people in all walks of life and jobs. The fact that people pay to see what they do doesn't make them any different to anyone else, we just want them to be something more.

The Angry Pirate wrote:

Comparing them with Joe Public doing something mundane like delivering the mail, or driving the bus is an insult to all supporters who pay their wages.

I think it's more insulting to suggest that someone who delivers mail or drives a bus is any less deserving of praise, I personally think someone who is responsible for a number of lives, such as a bus driver, should hold equal if not more respect than someone who plays a game for a living. But that's now how society works though is it?

We want heroes, we want people capable of doing something we can't, we want to live vicariously through them and belong to a tribe. We create their status and are equally apalled when those that we build up fall down. Who do professional Rugby League players idolise? How many would love to be footballers with all the glamour and money?

: Tue Mar 17, 2009 10:53 pm  

mark_m wrote:

This may come as a surprise to you but many people would place job satisfaction, recognition, enjoyment, working as part of a team and pride in what they are doing as being more important than money.

It doesn't suprise me at all, you're almost getting the point now!

mark_m wrote:

Money is there just to pay the bills. And those are just factors of 'everyday' jobs and not that of a professional sportsman who (should) have a host of other reasons... maybe competitiveness and desire to succeed?

If you have the job you desire and the money is good enough to "just pay the bills" then that may be the case, there are all too many people in this country and the rest of the world where money is the be all and end all simply becuase they don't have enough, either through poverty or greed.

Competitiveness and desire to succeed exists in all areas of employment, if it didn't then most companies wouldn't exist.

mark_m wrote:

Put it this way, if all the Warrington players are here solely just to pick up a wage we will never win anything. That just isn't motivation enough.

You see the problem is, very simply, perception. We hold our players in esteem for what they do and who they play for.

Nowadays a sportsman doesn't know any other way, that's invariably all they have ever done. They haven't been to job interviews or sent out CV's or spent years in education. Most have an appreciation of what a "normal" job entails, but essentialy they are here solely for our need, they live in their own world which has it's own unique challenges. Some have great difficulty in adapting after their time in sport, but very simply put, they are the same as everyone else who works and have the same wants and desires and suffer from the same problems.

: Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:29 am  

behind the stick wrote:

It doesn't suprise me at all, you're almost getting the point now!



If you have the job you desire and the money is good enough to "just pay the bills" then that may be the case, there are all too many people in this country and the rest of the world where money is the be all and end all simply becuase they don't have enough, either through poverty or greed.

Competitiveness and desire to succeed exists in all areas of employment, if it didn't then most companies wouldn't exist.



You see the problem is, very simply, perception. We hold our players in esteem for what they do and who they play for.

Nowadays a sportsman doesn't know any other way, that's invariably all they have ever done. They haven't been to job interviews or sent out CV's or spent years in education. Most have an appreciation of what a "normal" job entails, but essentialy they are here solely for our need, they live in their own world which has it's own unique challenges. Some have great difficulty in adapting after their time in sport, but very simply put, they are the same as everyone else who works and have the same wants and desires and suffer from the same problems.

That is a good point and this is where the supporter has probably become alienated from the professional sportsman (even more more with typical premier league players). This is a world away from the time when RL players held down a regular job and would then see playing the game as a privelige and a release from the working week.