FORUMS FORUMS






RLFANS.COM
Celebrating
25 years service to
the Rugby League
Community!

   WWW.RLFANS.COM • View topic - Rumours 2
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
Club Coach16269
JoinedServiceReputation
Oct 12 200420 years76th
OnlineLast PostLast Page
21st Nov 24 22:3221st Nov 24 21:03LINK
Milestone Posts
15000
20000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Signature
Challenge Cup winners 2009 2010 2012 2019
League Leaders 2011 2016

Re: Rumours 2 : Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:26 pm  
I don't think that ratio of playing internationals is that relevant. We're talking about which players can be long-term difference makers in SL rather than who can win international caps. Briers hardly played for GB at senior level, Danny McGuire didn't get much of an international career but were both influential SL players.

Wood/Cooper, personally I rate Wood higher but don't think there's much in it, if you say Cooper I wouldn't argue.

A rough off-the-top of my head tiering scale for ex Wire Academy products

Tier 1: Harris, Sculthorpe, Currie 2015-16
Tier 2: Wood, Cooper, Hilton, Wainwright
Tier 3: Riley, O'Brien, Patton, Lee Penny
Tier 4: Noone, Sibbit, Mark Gleeson, Toby King, Kevin Penny, Currie post 2017.

Lots of lower tiers of players that weren't really up to it.
RankPostsTeam
Club Owner7605No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Aug 31 200321 years243rd
OnlineLast PostLast Page
16th May 24 12:2516th May 24 12:25LINK
Milestone Posts
5000
10000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530

Re: Rumours 2 : Tue Jan 07, 2020 9:50 pm  
You've forgotten GB international Joe Philbin.
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
Player Coach2841
JoinedServiceReputation
Oct 06 200519 years10th
OnlineLast PostLast Page
22nd Nov 24 15:2722nd Nov 24 14:15LINK
Milestone Posts
2500
5000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Warrington
Signature
Ettinghausen's gone ice skatin'

Re: Rumours 2 : Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:54 pm  
Mark Hilton should NEVER appear on any tier that Mike Cooper inhabits. He should be a fair few rungs below.
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
Club Coach16269
JoinedServiceReputation
Oct 12 200420 years76th
OnlineLast PostLast Page
21st Nov 24 22:3221st Nov 24 21:03LINK
Milestone Posts
15000
20000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Signature
Challenge Cup winners 2009 2010 2012 2019
League Leaders 2011 2016

Re: Rumours 2 : Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:01 pm  
Philbin tier 3 / 4
RankPostsTeam
Club Owner7605No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Aug 31 200321 years243rd
OnlineLast PostLast Page
16th May 24 12:2516th May 24 12:25LINK
Milestone Posts
5000
10000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530

Re: Rumours 2 : Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:17 pm  
GB international in with Patton and Noone. Yeah right.

How many games do you get to each season these days Sally?
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
International Star2305No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Jan 30 201510 years79th
OnlineLast PostLast Page
21st Nov 24 00:0820th Nov 24 21:53LINK
Milestone Posts
1000
2500
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530

Re: Rumours 2 : Wed Jan 08, 2020 12:33 am  
ratticusfinch wrote:
Mark Hilton should NEVER appear on any tier that Mike Cooper inhabits. He should be a fair few rungs below.

Exactly what i thought :-)
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
Player Coach14129
JoinedServiceReputation
Jun 25 200618 years8th
OnlineLast PostLast Page
21st Nov 24 21:3521st Nov 24 16:55LINK
Milestone Posts
10000
15000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Forum21

Re: Rumours 2 : Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:12 am  
sally cinnamon wrote:
Philbin tier 3 / 4


Personally I rate him tier 2 on last seasons form.
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
Player Coach14129
JoinedServiceReputation
Jun 25 200618 years8th
OnlineLast PostLast Page
21st Nov 24 21:3521st Nov 24 16:55LINK
Milestone Posts
10000
15000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Forum21

Re: Rumours 2 : Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:23 am  
sally cinnamon wrote:
I don't think that ratio of playing internationals is that relevant. We're talking about which players can be long-term difference makers in SL rather than who can win international caps. Briers hardly played for GB at senior level, Danny McGuire didn't get much of an international career but were both influential SL players.

Wood/Cooper, personally I rate Wood higher but don't think there's much in it, if you say Cooper I wouldn't argue.

A rough off-the-top of my head tiering scale for ex Wire Academy products

Tier 1: Harris, Sculthorpe, Currie 2015-16
Tier 2: Wood, Cooper, Hilton, Wainwright
Tier 3: Riley, O'Brien, Patton, Lee Penny
Tier 4: Noone, Sibbit, Mark Gleeson, Toby King, Kevin Penny, Currie post 2017.

Lots of lower tiers of players that weren't really up to it.


There is also a number that don't feature in your list.

Laithwaite, Dywer, Wilde, Ben Evans, Ryhs Evans, Jack Johnson, Glenn Riley, Danny Bridge, Jordan Burke, Saltonstall, Bennion, Pat Moran, Livett, Morgan Smith, George King, Will Dagger.
RankPostsTeam
Moderator4688No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Apr 19 201213 years137th
OnlineLast PostLast Page
22nd Nov 24 11:2011th Oct 24 06:54LINK
Milestone Posts
2500
5000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Riding Slow Horses
Moderator

Re: Rumours 2 : Wed Jan 08, 2020 11:50 am  
And did he shed a tear for Ben Harrison ?
RankPostsTeam
Moderator4688No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Apr 19 201213 years137th
OnlineLast PostLast Page
22nd Nov 24 11:2011th Oct 24 06:54LINK
Milestone Posts
2500
5000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Riding Slow Horses
Moderator

Re: Rumours 2 : Wed Jan 08, 2020 12:55 pm  
Over the period 2004-2016 (13 years) we had a total of 32 academy players making a SL debut. Rating them is difficult and we would never agree on a list of the best products. Perhaps a fairer way of looking at their value might be to set a figure of say 100 SL games played for the club ? If we did that we would end up with;

Chris Riley 181
Ben Harrison 211
Mike Cooper 219
Rhys Evans. 105
Ben Currie 161
Joe Philbin. 120
Dec. Patton 102

Even here there are anomalies as I would say both Evans and Patton have benefited from a lack of quality players in SL available to take their place. Notable exceptions to the list are Brad Dwyer (who must have played over a total of 100 SL games if you include his Leeds stint) and Toby King who will surely reach 100 by the end of the 2020 season. If Laithwaite hadn't been plagued with injuries I suspect he too would have got into the list. But overall, I would have to say that other than Currie, we have not really seen any stand out players in the Sculthorpe /Harris bracket. I think what is very obvious though is the decline in available talent pool for SL, perhaps typified by Rhys Williams getting back to SL with Salford and Kevin Penny making a return with us.

According to SL stats published a few years back, out of a SL Academy intake, only 2 youngsters will make it through to SL standard. From our 32 academy players I would say 16-17 could be said to have played at SL standard for a reasonable period - but we should have seen 26, so we are behind the curve in comparison to other clubs. Similarly, if you look at the '100 club' above you would probably say we have really only produced 5 good quality players that have featured regularly in our 1st 17.

Where have we gone wrong ? Is it lack of intake quality to the Academy or the standard of coaching and training facilities ? As already pointed out, if the coaching was mediocre then there would surely be some players that left the Academy and flourished elsewhere, but that has not happened. Also, we seem to change the Academy head coach every 2-3 years, so you would have thought that at least one of them would have made a difference or that we would have seen years where good quality youngsters came through. So the most likely cause (for me) is the intake, and in the past, having insufficient numbers of youngsters playing in the locality could well have been the most damaging factor.
PreviousNext

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: easyWire, Google Feedfetcher and 152 guests

REPLY

Subject: 
Message:
   
Please note using apple style emoji's can result in posting failures.
Use the FULL EDITOR to better format content or upload images, be notified of replies etc...

Return to Warrington Wolves


RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
16m
Film game
karetaker
5629
21m
TV Games - Not Hull
UllFC
3080
27m
How many games will we win
Khlav Kalash
4
29m
Fixtures 2025
UllFC
65
40m
Planning for next season
J7P1
175
44m
Wigan v Wire in Vegas
karetaker
11
Recent
DoR - New Coach - Investor & Adam - New signings
UllFC
4014
Recent
Salford
rubber ducki
12
Recent
ALL NEW 49ERS ERA LEEDS UTD THREAD
tad rhino
2590
Recent
Transfer Talk V5
RAPIDO
502
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
1m
BORED The Band Name Game
Boss Hog
63221
1m
Out of contract 2025
rubber ducki
62
1m
2025 Recruitment
Rafa9
192
2m
TV Games - Not Hull
UllFC
3080
2m
How many games will we win
Khlav Kalash
4
2m
Fixtures 2025
UllFC
65
3m
Noah Booth out on loan
Butcher
20
3m
Pre Season - 2025
number 6
182
4m
Salford
rubber ducki
12
4m
Rumours thread
Scarlet Pimp
2515
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Dan Norman Retires
Cokey
1
TODAY
How many games will we win
Khlav Kalash
4
TODAY
Leigh Leopards - 2025 Fixtures
ColD
2
TODAY
Catalan Away
jonh
5
TODAY
2025 Betfred Super League Fixtures
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
2025 fixtures
Smiffy27
15
TODAY
Fixtures
Willzay
13
TODAY
Salford
rubber ducki
12
TODAY
WCC Off
Choc Ice
11
TODAY
Leeds away first up
Big lads mat
40
TODAY
Jake McLoughlin
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Assistant Coach - Langley
exiledrhino
30
TODAY
Noah Booth out on loan
Butcher
20
TODAY
Luke Gale testimonial match
BarnsleyGull
2
TODAY
England 5 - 0 Ireland
Sadfish
1
TODAY
Magic Weekend 2025 - Back To Newcastle
RLFANS News
1
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
2025 Betfred Super League Fixt..
331
Magic Weekend 2025 - Back To N..
518
England Beat Samoa To Take Tes..
1262
England's Women Demolish The W..
1088
England Beat Samoa Comfortably..
1325
Operational Rules Tribunal –..
1118
IMG-RFL club gradings released..
1379
Wakefield Trinity Win Champion..
1918
Hunslet Secure Promotion After..
2137
Trinity Into Play Off Final Af..
2378
Wigan Warriors Crowned Champio..
1950
York Valkyrie Win Back to Back..
2187
Hunslet Book Relegation Play O..
2652
Penrith Panthers Secure Fourth..
2083
Wigan Humiliate Leigh For Gran..
2157
RLFANS Match Centre
Matches on TV
Thu 13th Feb
SL
20:00
Wigan-Leigh
Fri 14th Feb
SL
20:00
Hull KR-Castleford
SL
20:00
Catalans-Hull FC
Sat 15th Feb
SL
15:00
Leeds - Wakefield
SL
17:30
St.Helens-Salford
Sun 16th Feb
SL
15:00
Huddersfield-Warrington
Thu 20th Feb
SL
20:00
Wakefield - Hull KR
Fri 21st Feb
SL
20:00
Warrington-Catalans
SL
20:00
Hull FC-Wigan
Sat 22nd Feb
SL
15:00
Salford-Leeds
SL
20:00
Castleford-St.Helens
Sun 23rd Feb
SL
14:30
Leigh-Huddersfield
Thu 6th Mar
SL
20:00
Hull FC-Leigh
Fri 7th Mar
SL
20:00
Castleford-Salford
SL
20:00
St.Helens-Hull KR
Sat 8th Mar
SL
17:30
Catalans-Leeds
Sun 9th Mar
SL
17:30
Warrington - Wakefield
SL
17:30
Wigan-Huddersfield
Thu 20th Mar
SL
20:00
Salford-Huddersfield
Fri 21st Mar
SL
20:00
St.Helens-Warrington
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Mens Betfred Super League XXVIII ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wigan 29 768 338 430 48
Hull KR 29 731 344 387 44
Warrington 29 769 351 418 42
Leigh 29 580 442 138 33
Salford 28 556 561 -5 32
St.Helens 28 618 411 207 30
 
Catalans 27 475 427 48 30
Leeds 27 530 488 42 28
Huddersfield 27 468 658 -190 20
Castleford 27 425 735 -310 15
Hull FC 27 328 894 -566 6
LondonB 27 317 916 -599 6
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Betfred Championship 2024 ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wakefield 27 1032 275 757 52
Toulouse 26 765 388 377 37
Bradford 28 723 420 303 36
York 29 695 501 194 32
Widnes 27 561 502 59 29
Featherstone 27 634 525 109 28
 
Sheffield 26 626 526 100 28
Doncaster 26 498 619 -121 25
Halifax 26 509 650 -141 22
Batley 26 422 591 -169 22
Swinton 28 484 676 -192 20
Barrow 25 442 720 -278 19
Whitehaven 25 437 826 -389 18
Dewsbury 27 348 879 -531 4
Hunslet 1 6 10 -4 0
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
16m
Film game
karetaker
5629
21m
TV Games - Not Hull
UllFC
3080
27m
How many games will we win
Khlav Kalash
4
29m
Fixtures 2025
UllFC
65
40m
Planning for next season
J7P1
175
44m
Wigan v Wire in Vegas
karetaker
11
Recent
DoR - New Coach - Investor & Adam - New signings
UllFC
4014
Recent
Salford
rubber ducki
12
Recent
ALL NEW 49ERS ERA LEEDS UTD THREAD
tad rhino
2590
Recent
Transfer Talk V5
RAPIDO
502
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
1m
BORED The Band Name Game
Boss Hog
63221
1m
Out of contract 2025
rubber ducki
62
1m
2025 Recruitment
Rafa9
192
2m
TV Games - Not Hull
UllFC
3080
2m
How many games will we win
Khlav Kalash
4
2m
Fixtures 2025
UllFC
65
3m
Noah Booth out on loan
Butcher
20
3m
Pre Season - 2025
number 6
182
4m
Salford
rubber ducki
12
4m
Rumours thread
Scarlet Pimp
2515
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Dan Norman Retires
Cokey
1
TODAY
How many games will we win
Khlav Kalash
4
TODAY
Leigh Leopards - 2025 Fixtures
ColD
2
TODAY
Catalan Away
jonh
5
TODAY
2025 Betfred Super League Fixtures
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
2025 fixtures
Smiffy27
15
TODAY
Fixtures
Willzay
13
TODAY
Salford
rubber ducki
12
TODAY
WCC Off
Choc Ice
11
TODAY
Leeds away first up
Big lads mat
40
TODAY
Jake McLoughlin
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Assistant Coach - Langley
exiledrhino
30
TODAY
Noah Booth out on loan
Butcher
20
TODAY
Luke Gale testimonial match
BarnsleyGull
2
TODAY
England 5 - 0 Ireland
Sadfish
1
TODAY
Magic Weekend 2025 - Back To Newcastle
RLFANS News
1
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
2025 Betfred Super League Fixt..
331
Magic Weekend 2025 - Back To N..
518
England Beat Samoa To Take Tes..
1262
England's Women Demolish The W..
1088
England Beat Samoa Comfortably..
1325
Operational Rules Tribunal –..
1118
IMG-RFL club gradings released..
1379
Wakefield Trinity Win Champion..
1918
Hunslet Secure Promotion After..
2137
Trinity Into Play Off Final Af..
2378
Wigan Warriors Crowned Champio..
1950
York Valkyrie Win Back to Back..
2187
Hunslet Book Relegation Play O..
2652
Penrith Panthers Secure Fourth..
2083
Wigan Humiliate Leigh For Gran..
2157


Visit the RLFANS.COM SHOP
for more merchandise!