Re: Recruitment rumours and links : Mon Jun 10, 2024 9:02 pm  

Smiffy27 wrote:

I've not watched the game again. But my thoughts at the time was that Musgrove looked good on Saturday & made some real tough carries. It's a good sign if he played his best game so far in one of the toughest of games. I've been a bit disappointed up to know but lets hope.

Some others said this that it was his best performance to date, also same people have been perplexed by his performances up to this game. I hope he kicks on for rest of season but like I said about a few days back in another thread for a guy his size I was expecting more. He is a fair bit bigger in height and size to Philbin but Philbin seems to be breaking the gain line more. Anyway I still think we need props.

Regarding Tai I think there is an option for an extra year but I’ve read he is going to the Dolphins. No idea what is happening with Drinkwater but if either of them 2 or both are gone at end of season I can see why an offer for further year for Ratchford is in play.

Re: Recruitment rumours and links : Mon Jun 10, 2024 9:28 pm  

It's not clear what is happening to Tai & Drinkwater. If they are not with us next year they need replacing. Anyone who doubts Musgrove's potential needs to sit & watch the Cup Final.

Re: Recruitment rumours and links : Mon Jun 10, 2024 10:03 pm  

Smiffy27 wrote:

Jimmy Lowes? How far back do you bear the grudge? Gilfeddar to Wigan must be worth a mention.
Chambers can only be responsible since his appointment. Get a grip. We lose at Wembley & wow you revert to type. Cheers up and enjoy the game.

You invited me to blindly trust the powers that be. I countered that. You didn't like your point looking foolish as a cited some recent disastrous appointments. I went back 15 years under the current owners.

Maybe I am a bit down after going to wembley and having to sit through that crap on the field to choruses of "you're poop" and "w@nky warrington" and wondering what we have to do to become as good as our rivals in developing young players then I read about this appointment.

Re: Recruitment rumours and links : Mon Jun 10, 2024 10:05 pm  

Barbed Wire wrote:

Ratchford has been a model pro, very rarely has he been injured, banned or subject to internal disciplinary. He’s been in England and GB set ups over long periods. Played under range of superb coaches for club and country. Played in big games, granted losing more than his fair share.

In that 12 years since his debut we’ve retired lots of players. Some of them legends of the game, but not retained them as coaches.

Some people are just leaders. Just good humans. There’s no issue here, just faux outrage.

If that is directed at me there is no outrage. Just an expression of a sigh as we make another jobs for the boys appointment and then a moment later wonder how the Wire "bridesmaid" culture persists. True Ratchford has a lot of finals experience - losing them. I am sure he is a decent human being.

Re: Recruitment rumours and links : Tue Jun 11, 2024 6:33 am  

Wires71 wrote:

If that is directed at me there is no outrage. Just an expression of a sigh as we make another jobs for the boys appointment and then a moment later wonder how the Wire "bridesmaid" culture persists. True Ratchford has a lot of finals experience - losing them. I am sure he is a decent human being.

It's the idea that you need a Grand Final Winners Medal to coach that I can't get. How many coaches have you watched to come up with this?

Re: Recruitment rumours and links : Tue Jun 11, 2024 8:09 am  

Wires71 wrote:

If that is directed at me there is no outrage. Just an expression of a sigh as we make another jobs for the boys appointment and then a moment later wonder how the Wire "bridesmaid" culture persists. True Ratchford has a lot of finals experience - losing them. I am sure he is a decent human being.

My point is, I’m not sure it matters what people win as a player. There are more characteristics to look at. Richard Marshall couldn’t even win a coin toss as a player but won back to back titles as assistant at Saints. He came into Warrington as a “jobs for the boys appointment” twice, but has proved to be more than that. I think Peter Wallace is still an assistant at Penrith, again finishing his career there as a mate of the club. Didn’t win anything, but is in the best set up in the game.

Just because someone has been at a club for a while, and might not have won as much as they would have liked, doesn’t mean that aren’t good coaches. Sam Burgess himself won one title all his career and absolutely nothing else. Still doesn’t undermine his credentials as a promising coach. In a small and insular world as RL, clubs know each others people inside and out, you can’t escape the rumours of who’s doing what, and Ratch has constantly been held in high regard by everyone. There’s no story here.

Re: Recruitment rumours and links : Tue Jun 11, 2024 9:13 am  

You can see it happening but when? Lee Briers coming home.

Re: Recruitment rumours and links : Tue Jun 11, 2024 9:30 am  

Barbed Wire wrote:

My point is, I’m not sure it matters what people win as a player. There are more characteristics to look at. Richard Marshall couldn’t even win a coin toss as a player but won back to back titles as assistant at Saints. He came into Warrington as a “jobs for the boys appointment” twice, but has proved to be more than that. I think Peter Wallace is still an assistant at Penrith, again finishing his career there as a mate of the club. Didn’t win anything, but is in the best set up in the game.

Just because someone has been at a club for a while, and might not have won as much as they would have liked, doesn’t mean that aren’t good coaches. Sam Burgess himself won one title all his career and absolutely nothing else. Still doesn’t undermine his credentials as a promising coach. In a small and insular world as RL, clubs know each others people inside and out, you can’t escape the rumours of who’s doing what, and Ratch has constantly been held in high regard by everyone. There’s no story here.

You make fair points, he may turn out to be a fantastic coach, we just have no evidence of that at this stage. I'll summarise the counter points.

1. Ratchford has no coaching experience that we are aware of at any level*
2. We are supposedly trying to change culture. This perpetuates it, ensures a continuity.
3. We want the best people in the best positions. It would be very fortunate indeed if the best recruit we could find internationally for a youth coaching role happened to be a fullback retiring just at that point. We have had jobs for the boys for years and look where it has got us. Maybe it's time to change the approach.

What prompted me to put my head above the parapet, inviting the critique from the usual, in posting a contrary view for discussion was that someone on here had posted that "the era of jobs for the boys has gone". I would assert that this appointment proves that it has not. Just seems a convenient, lazy, appointment.

Anyway we do not have to agree and I can respect your view.

*Having said that I have just researched that Joel Tompkins (of all people) is Youth Performance Coach at Wigan so maybe it isn't that important. I guess the youngsters can ask "What do I need to do to win the GF Joel?" or "How was it playing and winning a WCC?". Ask Ratch that and he wouldn't have a clue.

Re: Recruitment rumours and links : Tue Jun 11, 2024 10:28 am  

Wires71 wrote:

You make fair points, he may turn out to be a fantastic coach, we just have no evidence of that at this stage. I'll summarise the counter points.

1. Ratchford has no coaching experience that we are aware of at any level*
2. We are supposedly trying to change culture. This perpetuates it, ensures a continuity.
3. We want the best people in the best positions. It would be very fortunate indeed if the best recruit we could find internationally for a youth coaching role happened to be a fullback retiring just at that point. We have had jobs for the boys for years and look where it has got us. Maybe it's time to change the approach.

What prompted me to put my head above the parapet, inviting the critique from the usual, in posting a contrary view for discussion was that someone on here had posted that "the era of jobs for the boys has gone". I would assert that this appointment proves that it has not. Just seems a convenient, lazy, appointment.

Anyway we do not have to agree and I can respect your view.

*Having said that I have just researched that Joel Tompkins (of all people) is Youth Performance Coach at Wigan so maybe it isn't that important. I guess the youngsters can ask "What do I need to do to win the GF Joel?" or "How was it playing and winning a WCC?". Ask Ratch that and he wouldn't have a clue.

Two different points here that are getting muddled up.

One do you have to be a serial winner as a player to be a good coach. My thoughts would be no, in your last point you reference your wannabe asking Joel but when Matty Peet was in that role he had even less experience than Ratch. I think the best setups have a mixture, so with Wigun Matty Peet might not be able to tell you what a GF win feels like but his assistants can.

The other jobs for the boys point. I think it very much depends on the job.I wasn't impressed with the selection process for the DoR, which is different to saying I don't think the current DoR isn't a good fit. For the very top jobs we need a rigours selection process to get the best out there. The Ratch situation is we are helping a player at the end of his playing career transition to his next career, we are helping him become a coach, Abe has even said that a job at Warrington isnt even a given yet. In this respect we are just being a good employer and treating an employee who has given many years of service help with their retirement/next phase.

If we turned around tomorrow and said that Ratchford is being apppinted head of youth development from 2026 without any assessment of his coaching ability or formal process then I'd agree with you, but that's isn't currently whats happening.

Re: Recruitment rumours and links : Tue Jun 11, 2024 10:46 am  

Bunkaib wrote:

Two different points here that are getting muddled up.

One do you have to be a serial winner as a player to be a good coach. My thoughts would be no, in your last point you reference your wannabe asking Joel but when Matty Peet was in that role he had even less experience than Ratch. I think the best setups have a mixture, so with Wigun Matty Peet might not be able to tell you what a GF win feels like but his assistants can.

The other jobs for the boys point. I think it very much depends on the job.I wasn't impressed with the selection process for the DoR, which is different to saying I don't think the current DoR isn't a good fit. For the very top jobs we need a rigours selection process to get the best out there. The Ratch situation is we are helping a player at the end of his playing career transition to his next career, we are helping him become a coach, Abe has even said that a job at Warrington isnt even a given yet. In this respect we are just being a good employer and treating an employee who has given many years of service help with their retirement/next phase.

If we turned around tomorrow and said that Ratchford is being apppinted head of youth development from 2026 without any assessment of his coaching ability or formal process then I'd agree with you, but that's isn't currently whats happening.

Good post and fair points, but inaccurate on Peet in terms of coaching experience. He was coach of Wigan St Pats before becoming a scholarship coach with Wigan part-time before becoming full time. He also left Wigan before coming back as assistant for the first team.

I agree though a balance is needed. Role models who have succeeded at the top level and know what it takes, and those with coaching experience who have worked successfully with and developed younger players. My view is Ratch is neither. I think it's sentimentality and helping a good ex-pro get on in the game in retirement. Generous by the club, great for Ratch, but is it great for us as a club? Time will tell.

In closing I like Ratch as a player, I think he gives his all and has been a good servant (as they say). He also comes across as a decent person and is well respected. He is at the end playing wise though and baffled at a playing contract.

PS - You get the issue with the DoR appointment. No-one is bagging Chambers as an individual, just the process of appointment. I don't believe we searched extensively for other candidates.