Re: 2017 and Tony Smith : Fri Feb 10, 2017 9:06 am  

I like Smith i really do, but this reminds me of Arsenal fans calling Wenger out. Just remember what Smith has done for us and what finals we have been in, yes the losses to the finals hurt but we got there. If rather get to a final and lose than not get to one. IMO if we was to part ways with Tony, i would love a Wane type manager and im being serious. Hes Wigan to the core and you can tell that with the way the players are. We seem like we dont have that at the moment.

Anyway i think this year we will go one better i have faith!!!

Re: 2017 and Tony Smith : Fri Feb 10, 2017 9:58 am  

Briers'Boot wrote:

I like Smith i really do, but this reminds me of Arsenal fans calling Wenger out. Just remember what Smith has done for us and what finals we have been in, yes the losses to the finals hurt but we got there. If rather get to a final and lose than not get to one. IMO if we was to part ways with Tony, i would love a Wane type manager and im being serious. Hes Wigan to the core and you can tell that with the way the players are. We seem like we dont have that at the moment.

Anyway i think this year we will go one better i have faith!!!

Wenger has won the biggest domestic trophy for that sport though, TS hasn't. Not with us anyway.

As i said in my earlier post. TS's last chance this year for me. Moran surely has to be saying 'i put a lot of money in, i want the big one, and you are consistently not delivering it' at some point, surely? He is a superb coach, no denying that, he has been the best coach weve ever had, But, how long do we keep saying its ok because we won 3 major trophies in four years. Latest being over 4 years ago.

Or am i being harsh?

Re: 2017 and Tony Smith : Fri Feb 10, 2017 10:04 am  

Barbed Wire wrote:

We all know that Agar, while he is a coach, doesn't make decisions for how the team play. If we're saying that because of the time frame he has been coaching the club, then let's start pointing fingers at Lee Briers. After all, he is coaching the halves and leading on the tactical kick coaching, which we have been let down with for the previous 2 seasons despite investment in Gidley and Sandow. (I'm not blaming Briers, simply making a point)

Using Agar as a scapegoat is short sighted in my opinion. Players make decisions on the field, to run when they should pass, to kick when they should run and make errors on or over the line, and that is just in the Grand Final alone. It's sport, that's what is so compelling.

I never used Agar as a scapegoat. I simply used the term "Agar period 2015-16".

So I think it is fair to discuss, what many believe, is that Warrington in the last 2 years have looked unable to score at times and often disorganised and lacking an attacking edge in the opposition 25. Furthermore when the going is tough (like the GF) we didn't seem to have a different style of playing. The fluent flowing rugby of 2010-2011 has gone.

Re: 2017 and Tony Smith : Fri Feb 10, 2017 10:14 am  

wire2004 wrote:

It's good that ts is in his 8th year with us and he has consistently delivered for us.
3 challenge cups
2 league leaders shield.
4/5 times in a old Trafford final and another challenge cup final last year as well. It's not too be sniffed at. Give me any other coach in superleague who has that in his resume. (Apart from Tony Smith at Leeds) not even Shaun wayne at .

Shaun Wane in 4 seasons has never failed to make the GF won 2 SL Titles and 1 x Challenge Cup and a Double.
He has never won a League Leaders Shield though, he can't boast that.

No one is suggesting Smith has not done wonders for Warrington, and is certainly the best post-War coach. But things get stale and, well the facts are, 4 years without a pot.

Re: 2017 and Tony Smith : Fri Feb 10, 2017 10:16 am  

LOngbarn Wire wrote:

Wenger has won the biggest domestic trophy for that sport though, TS hasn't. Not with us anyway.

As i said in my earlier post. TS's last chance this year for me. Moran surely has to be saying 'i put a lot of money in, i want the big one, and you are consistently not delivering it' at some point, surely? He is a superb coach, no denying that, he has been the best coach weve ever had, But, how long do we keep saying its ok because we won 3 major trophies in four years. Latest being over 4 years ago.

Or am i being harsh?

No you are being realistic in my view. This forum is odd at times. It usually takes a few more years for some people to catch up with what others can see right now.

Re: 2017 and Tony Smith : Fri Feb 10, 2017 12:06 pm  

as with Cullen we risk sticking with smith for a season or more too long.

when we get on a good roll and dominate teams we look good and can compete with any team on their day but as the grand final appearances show we cannot seem to grind out wins in tight important games and certainly don't seem to be able to cope with adversity in these games.

I feel the this will be a tough season for smith as we will have a slow start to the season hopefully we will come good at the end of the season. I think that a fair comparison is to compare us to Liverpool, they often are title contenders and beat the big sides like Chelsea arsenal Manu and Man City but then lose against sides like burnley or Watford, they are the games that cost Liverpool and also warrington too. so is it ability or mentality and commitment that were falling short on ?

Re: 2017 and Tony Smith : Fri Feb 10, 2017 12:20 pm  

Briers'Boot wrote:

I like Smith i really do, but this reminds me of Arsenal fans calling Wenger out. Just remember what Smith has done for us and what finals we have been in, yes the losses to the finals hurt but we got there. If rather get to a final and lose than not get to one. IMO if we was to part ways with Tony, i would love a Wane type manager and im being serious. Hes Wigan to the core and you can tell that with the way the players are. We seem like we dont have that at the moment.

Anyway i think this year we will go one better i have faith!!!

We tried the home-grown approach with Paul Cullen. Paul is Wire to the core and a good coach, to boot, but he clearly did not have that extra special something that gets you to finals and wins trophies.

Re: 2017 and Tony Smith : Fri Feb 10, 2017 12:32 pm  

A glaring example of our shortcomings was in the play off against Wigan at the HJ. Wigan had been criticised all season for grinding out wins & following the Flower sending off sprang into life with a Plan B that we had no answer to. We have been vulnerable against any opponents that have had alternative plans to fall back on ,& not just last season.

[Uncle Rico]

Re: 2017 and Tony Smith : Fri Feb 10, 2017 12:34 pm  

Wires71 wrote:

No you are being realistic in my view. This forum is odd at times. It usually takes a few more years for some people to catch up with what others can see right now.

What's odd about that? Your OPINION may prove to be correct over time, then again it might not. I think that it's normal that opinion will change over time, it would be a sad world if people were so convinced that they were correct all the time and stuck rigidly to that conviction.

Surely, it's all about expectation and not just the trophy cabinet have we entertained or been unlucky will also sway opinion? 2017 may be someone's last chance saloon, however he stays on and wins the lot in 2018 they may have to change their tune. Alternatively, the let him have a 'job for life brigade' finally get fed up in 2020 when we are still (hopefully not) pot-less and call for his head.

I hope he builds on last year, but, if he doesn't win the GF I wouldn't automatically show him the door

Re: 2017 and Tony Smith : Fri Feb 10, 2017 1:14 pm  

Wires71 wrote:

I never used Agar as a scapegoat. I simply used the term "Agar period 2015-16".

So I think it is fair to discuss, what many believe, is that Warrington in the last 2 years have looked unable to score at times and often disorganised and lacking an attacking edge in the opposition 25. Furthermore when the going is tough (like the GF) we didn't seem to have a different style of playing. The fluent flowing rugby of 2010-2011 has gone.

I agree, "the Willie Poaching era" was incredible to watch. We played exciting rugby, winning games at a canter and racking up points. Best era from a Warrington team in my lifetime, only 1994 coming close.

What is the difference between this team and that? Put simply, the standard of player has dropped significantly, the Hodgson/Briers/Monaghan's of the world are not playing in England. Some teams set up very well and play 'structure' rugby, and do that very well and it's hard to break down without a bit of class. Sadly, we don't have that (we were close with Sandow), so we either fight fire with fire and play dull, structured but effective rugby, or play expressive rugby as well as a reduced skill set of players can. My preference, as stated at the start of this post, was to play entertaining rugby.