Re: New Prop : Wed Mar 23, 2022 11:08 pm  

Moe syslak wrote:

Well said. A coach won't make any difference if players have no desire. The likes of currie, widdop and King are playing games half ar$Ed, and that's the ONE thing you can't do if you want to win any game of rugby league.

Same goes for kick chases. They are a barometer of how committed the team is.

Players not giving 100% need to be dropped. It's corrosive and insulting. Powell has surprised me with how tolerant he is. Some players are taking the mickey.

Re: New Prop : Thu Mar 24, 2022 7:07 am  

Uncle Rico wrote:

You are correct RD he did say that and to be fair so was Fafita, we are light but what I didn't make of it was that he thought Mike Cooper is a second rower

Fafita didn’t say he was a backrower, I did.

Ok Cooper has transitioned into a prop, and a very good one, but unlike Warmsley, doesn’t seem to have the gravitas. Warmsley size carries the weight balance that is lacking when partnered with a transitional prop like Matty Lees. Cooper and Hughes in comparison?

Cooper was always a backrow:/loose forward who struggled to get a regular start, heads off down under and get huge raps with his offloads when playing in a big pack. He’s now playing in a light pack. It’s all relative.

My comments are my own and what I see.

Packs win games

Re: New Prop : Thu Mar 24, 2022 7:35 am  

I suppose if the definition of a prop is “are you as big and effective (and serious?!) as Walmesley” then not many will qualify.

[Fantastic Mr Catpiss]

Re: New Prop : Thu Mar 24, 2022 9:01 am  

rubber duckie wrote:

Fafita didn’t say he was a backrower, I did.

Ok Cooper has transitioned into a prop, and a very good one, but unlike Warmsley, doesn’t seem to have the gravitas. Warmsley size carries the weight balance that is lacking when partnered with a transitional prop like Matty Lees. Cooper and Hughes in comparison?

Cooper was always a backrow:/loose forward who struggled to get a regular start, heads off down under and get huge raps with his offloads when playing in a big pack. He’s now playing in a light pack. It’s all relative.

My comments are my own and what I see.

Packs win games

Sorry when did Cooper transition into a prop? He's always played prop since he came into the first team?

Also how come if he's been playing in a weak pack since he came back he's been up there with the best props and been a supposed man of steel contender?

[Uncle Rico]

Re: New Prop : Thu Mar 24, 2022 9:32 am  

rubber duckie wrote:

Fafita didn’t say he was a backrower, I did.

Ok Cooper has transitioned into a prop, and a very good one, but unlike Warmsley, doesn’t seem to have the gravitas. Warmsley size carries the weight balance that is lacking when partnered with a transitional prop like Matty Lees. Cooper and Hughes in comparison?

Cooper was always a backrow:/loose forward who struggled to get a regular start, heads off down under and get huge raps with his offloads when playing in a big pack. He’s now playing in a light pack. It’s all relative.

My comments are my own and what I see.

Packs win games

I didn't say that you said Fafita thought Cooper was a backrower, I heard the same (correct IMO) comment as you. You asked us to "make of that what you will" and I think that the majority will have Cooper down as a Prop and it was aimed at the whole pack and bench.

Here's one for you if we had two Cooper's on the pitch Mike and Tommy and three on the bench Gary, Bradley and Mini but all of equal stature would you think,

a) We have an abundance of props
b) We have an abundance of second rowers
c) We'll never be short of a barrel at the Christmas Party

[Fantastic Mr Catpiss]

Re: New Prop : Thu Mar 24, 2022 10:00 am  

Uncle Rico wrote:

I didn't say that you said Fafita thought Cooper was a backrower, I heard the same (correct IMO) comment as you. You asked us to "make of that what you will" and I think that the majority will have Cooper down as a Prop and it was aimed at the whole pack and bench.

Here's one for you if we had two Cooper's on the pitch Mike and Tommy and three on the bench Gary, Bradley and Mini but all of equal stature would you think,

a) We have an abundance of props
b) We have an abundance of second rowers
c) We'll never be short of a barrel at the Christmas Party

See the thing is, his point will come back around to the 80s and les boyd and kevin tamati, our sport is so far distanced from that version of the sport its not even relevant to make comparisons like that.

[Fantastic Mr Catpiss]

Re: New Prop : Thu Mar 24, 2022 10:04 am  

Captain Hook wrote:

I suppose if the definition of a prop is “are you as big and effective (and serious?!) as Walmesley” then not many will qualify.

Here's your litmus test on this one, how many people were supporting of antony england? he ticks a few recruitment boxes as he was as big if not bigger than walmsley, and he came from the championship, which as you will see lately is a requirement for the usual suspects complaining about poor recruitment from the nrl, but they dont like it when we try to sign players from the championship.

a lot of these complaints and viewpoints are cyclical, people saying we shouldn't be tieing up money in the halves, we should spend marquee on a prop, couple years down the line when we still haven't won a gf, why are we wasting it on a prop?...

Re: New Prop : Thu Mar 24, 2022 10:16 am  

Fantastic Mr Catpiss wrote:

Sorry when did Cooper transition into a prop? He's always played prop since he came into the first team?

In his last season before he went to Australia most of his starts were at loose forward with most of his appearances coming as a bench prop.

The only reason he didn't start as prop in that season (2013) was due to our abundance of huge forwards.

This was a time when the man-mountain Waterhouse was playing SR/LF. We had Harrison and Westwood playing SR too, all of which would probably be playing prop in our current team.

So I'd say back then, I'd say he was a prop who was played in other roles due to his inexperience and squad quality. I can't remember him ever being seen as a SR.

Re: New Prop : Thu Mar 24, 2022 10:21 am  

Or thane wrote:

Exactly how i saw it, we weren't blown off the park and weren't as bad as the reactions warranted. We have Daz Clark, Mulhern, Charnley and potentially Magoulias for the challenge cup game so will level things up even more. We need a good response this week though.

Unfortunately being beaten by a less fancied club like Wakefield always gets the same reaction from those who don't understand the game.

It's always 'we played crap' and never 'that was a classic' as it would be were we Saints. On the day you were beaten by a slightly better team, this wee you may blow us off the park, who knows.

Some fans simply judge games and results based on jerseys, it's always been there but since SL it's become endemic.

On paper, Warrington is the better team and were we to play each other 20 times this season I would bet on Warrington winning most games.

What I don't get is why the games that are lost are always down to Warrington/any top team playing badly and never down to Wakefield/Toulouse/HKR just being in better form on the day and thus making it a bad game.

It was an excellent game and in the balance until Escare made it totally impossible.

The expression is 'live with it' it's the great unpredictable part of the game.

[Fantastic Mr Catpiss]

Re: New Prop : Thu Mar 24, 2022 10:21 am  

Jack Napier wrote:

In his last season before he went to Australia most of his starts were at loose forward with most of his appearances coming as a bench prop.

The only reason he didn't start as prop in that season (2013) was due to our abundance of huge forwards.

This was a time when the man-mountain Waterhouse was playing SR/LF. We had Harrison and Westwood playing SR too, all of which would probably be playing prop in our current team.

So I'd say back then, I'd say he was a prop who was played in other roles due to his inexperience and squad quality. I can't remember him ever being seen as a SR.

Early days of having a prop at 13, harrison used to play 13 ( i think he wore 13 at some point as well) and grix got slotted in and around to fill in gaps.

i think its fair to say harrison and cooper came through side by side, harrison struggled to nail down a first team spot as he wasn't the most mobile or direct player so wasn't an immediate slot in for playing prop but was probably too big to play 2nd row/defend wide out. it was only when smith came in he found a 'role' in the side.