Re: Some home truths....this may hurt : Sun Oct 09, 2016 1:40 pm  

It'd be like man city finishing second in the league, runners up in FA cup and winning the league cup.....they wouldn't be happy with that. Im not happy. If our only three quarter signing for next season is blythe we might as well not bother.

Re: Some home truths....this may hurt : Sun Oct 09, 2016 1:41 pm  

rubber duckie wrote:

I disagree. For the hight this club has set itself with investment in players, facilities and staff, that represents a failure.
Exclude LLS as a trophy, is not, it's a sub reward of the GF that carries no merit.
In football you would see a manager sacked at the elite level for a season like ours.

Football is fairytale world where a manager can be sacked after 3 months with a £million settlement because money is no object.

We were disappointing last night, but at the start of the season we were playing some great rugby. The outcome to the season is something we would have dreamed about ten years ago. Clearly we still need to improve, but I do not understand the desperation on this board at all.

Re: Some home truths....this may hurt : Sun Oct 09, 2016 1:43 pm  

With regards to having the best attack, whilst you have scored the most points during the season you failed to score enough when it mattered. It's very rare to lose games when you've only conceded 12 points but you've done it twice in the finals this year. Only 1 try in the GF, 2 in the CC with one coming from an opportunistic intercept, and whilst you won vs Hull and Saints in the previous 2 weeks, only 3 tries both times for how much you dominated those games was a poor return. With Lineham's final try coming from Hull having to throw the ball about and without dragging up a big argument their was obviously some controversy about the ones you scored vs Saints, so questions have to be asked about why you are finding it tough to score in the crunch games.

Re: Some home truths....this may hurt : Sun Oct 09, 2016 1:54 pm  

ThePrinter wrote:

With regards to having the best attack, whilst you have scored the most points during the season you failed to score enough when it mattered. It's very rare to lose games when you've only conceded 12 points but you've done it twice in the finals this year. Only 1 try in the GF, 2 in the CC with one coming from an opportunistic intercept, and whilst you won vs Hull and Saints in the previous 2 weeks, only 3 tries both times for how much you dominated those games was a poor return. With Lineham's final try coming from Hull having to throw the ball about and without dragging up a big argument their was obviously some controversy about the ones you scored vs Saints, so questions have to be asked about why you are finding it tough to score in the crunch games.

Because our right hand side is severely handicapped by evans at centre, and Atkins went off the boil on the other side, this coupled with Gidley who isn't very creative with ball in hand.

Re: Some home truths....this may hurt : Sun Oct 09, 2016 2:26 pm  

I really think you guys need some perspective , You are no doubt one off the top two sides in Super League but must realize that you are no where near as good as say you were in 2011 . That though is he same with all the top teams , no disrespect to Wigan as they fully deserve the Trophy as they have overcome so many injuries this year but without doubt the side they had out yesterday are the worst ever to win the Grand Final but thats not down to either coaches unfortunatley it is down to a general lack of quality players availible throughout the comp . Beware of what you wish for as the only coach that i feel could improve you is from Cas and i reckon he will not be coming in your direction

Re: Some home truths....this may hurt : Sun Oct 09, 2016 2:39 pm  

rubber duckie wrote:

In 2011 we didn't have the effort in personal and facilities we have now.
In 2011 we were satisfied, as you improve expectations soulful become higher.

Exactly, we were building in 2011 having won the CC the two previous seasons.

Re: Some home truths....this may hurt : Sun Oct 09, 2016 4:52 pm  

Wires71 wrote:

Exactly, we were building in 2011 having won the CC the two previous seasons.

Building in 2011 for what? For the core of the team to be tore out two years later due to age and retirement? Does the rebuilding we've had to do over the past two seasons prior to 2016 not count for anything?

Re: Some home truths....this may hurt : Sun Oct 09, 2016 4:56 pm  

DAG wrote:

Building in 2011 for what? For the core of the team to be tore out two years later due to age and retirement? Does the rebuilding we've had to do over the past two seasons prior to this not count for anything?

I think you misunderstood his point DAG.
He didn't mean re-building. He meant building like a crescendo.

Re: Some home truths....this may hurt : Sun Oct 09, 2016 5:03 pm  

DAG wrote:

Building in 2011 for what? For the core of the team to be tore out two years later due to age and retirement? Does the rebuilding we've had to do over the past two seasons prior to 2016 not count for anything?

Building to becoming a consistent force in SL from mid-lower table also rans. Is was only the back end of 2009 that we started to look anything like with the turning point being London away (the Matt King moment).

Smith failed to rejuvenate and turnover the squad each season with minor changes. He got to the stage where we had to let a high number of players go at once and failed to replace them (all apart form Briers which was unfortunate to end a season early). It's called succession planning and we did none of it. We needed a full rebuild. 2013/14/15 we gradually got worse - not better. Just look at the panic buys of Bailey and Cox as an example of lack of planning. Cox was rejected as not good enough for a team which was to be relegated that season!

In 2016 we played the majority of the season without recognised wingers or fullback and one attacking centre. We had a weak interchange bench and a second rower at starting prop who could not break a single tackle. This is after 8 years in charge. The comparison of the potency of the 2016 team vs the 2011 team does not bare thinking about.

Consider Leeds from 2004 to last year. They competed in 8/12 Grand finals doing that period of 12 years, winning 7 of them. That was not all achieved with the same squad, it was through an evolution in the playing personnel year on year whilst maintaining consistency and the board demanding exceptionally high standards. Alex Fergusson did the exact same thing a Manchester United. Managed to rotate a team over a long period of time whist still succeeding.

If our board truly demanded excellence, they would recognise that Smith in 8 years and resources at his disposal has failed to deliver the prize that matters most and lost 4 finals on the bounce. You don't need to be a coaching genius to win the GF, Wane has showed that. Time for change.

Re: Some home truths....this may hurt : Sun Oct 09, 2016 8:07 pm  

I was chastised on here, at the back end of 2011, for having the temerity to suggest that Briers needed replacing/adequate back up, quite quickly.He was still a good player, but time was catching up with him, and he was regularly picking up those three weeks plus, injuries. Three years later, bar his doctor telling him he had to retire, he would have still played in the 2014 season. Smith simply doesn't have much foresight, when some of us can see the bleeding obvious.

We panic buy Cox (I'll be kind, and call him average) and the Pantomime Dame, Bailey. Next season, we've got the bang ordinary Blyth back, and if rumours are true, Dom Cwosbeh? I know we have a salary cap, but why are we shopping at Harrod's, and then, a week later, we're picking around in the "oops" shelf at Netto.

For every Chris Hill, Smith buys us an Asotasi.
Why have we been bullied by inferior packs, time after time? When we played Hudds down here, in July, they were comfortably bottom of the table. They were ginormous, yet we try to take them on, down the middle, and we JUST scrape a win. Tactical Muppetry.

5 years ago, we had 4 great prop's. Now we have one.
We have players playing out of position, week in, week out.

I can see what's happening. Many on here can. Smith can't.