Re: 2017 and Tony Smith : Fri May 05, 2017 9:36 am  

moving on... wrote:

Or if you can see the training pitch from your upstairs window you can just watch.

FWIW I genuinely don't find it coincidence that our boring, predictable, passionless style of play went hand in hand with the arrival or Agar. We finished top of the tree in one of the poorest seasons of super league I have ever seen but also that that went in hand with the arrival of Sandow and his off the cuff playing style. Word had it he'd be told to stick to the plan but he'd just do his own thing anyway as soon as he got on the pitch. We don't have that in the team anymore.

If Wire are happy with TS taking a backseat role whilst his assistants run the show then fine. But at least part company with the 2nd in command and bring in some fresh ideas.

I don't mind loosing. Its part of the game there always has to be a loser. It's just the manner we're losing in. Boring, predictable, un-enthusiastic rugby. At least in the mid 2000's when we were awful we could still score points. We can't even do that now.

Today will be:

- Kick off.
- Patton/Livett/Gidley catches.
- Feeds a prop to take the first hit. 1st tackle.
- Russell Scoot. 2nd tackle.
- Evans Scoot. 3rd tackle.
- Patton first receiver with a short ball to a forward. 4th tackle.
- Stupidly overzealous 30 yard pass from right to left.
- Get caught with the ball. 5th tackle.
- Patton/Livett puts up a bomb to the corner.

Repeat throughout, never playing what's in front of us and throw in some knock ons, passes into touch and getting caught with the ball on the 5th.

In the final interview Tony will tell us we did lots of good things but for some reason nothing seemed to stick.

You heard it here first.

You forgot the charge down, they get 6 more tackles and score a try on 2nd tackle, cant believe you missed that lol.

Re: 2017 and Tony Smith : Fri May 05, 2017 9:43 am  

Yep just as I thought watching out your bedroom window. Must give you a fantastic insight into the week at training.

Re: 2017 and Tony Smith : Fri May 05, 2017 9:56 am  

Whatever we think of the team's current malaise, the style of play and who is responsible, let's not decry TS achievements of yesteryear.

Michael Monaghan was a slightly above average scrum-half, playing like a slightly below average one.
Lee Briers was a hugely talented player with several years of inconsistency behind him

Neither was a coaching genius, and neither, in terms of coaching, was responsible for the upturn in the clubs fortune. Tony Smith was. He took those two in particular and gave them a framework to express their ability in their natural positions. He also made Briers, and the club as a whole, vastly more professional and that was key in our upturn.

To suggest that TS turned up, went for a brew, read the papers and let Monaghan, Briers and Poching get on with it themselves is at best stretching plausibility, and also very disrespectful.

Re: 2017 and Tony Smith : Fri May 05, 2017 11:03 am  

morrisseyisawire wrote:

Whatever we think of the team's current malaise, the style of play and who is responsible, let's not decry TS achievements of yesteryear.

Michael Monaghan was a slightly above average scrum-half, playing like a slightly below average one.
Lee Briers was a hugely talented player with several years of inconsistency behind him

Neither was a coaching genius, and neither, in terms of coaching, was responsible for the upturn in the clubs fortune. Tony Smith was. He took those two in particular and gave them a framework to express their ability in their natural positions. He also made Briers, and the club as a whole, vastly more professional and that was key in our upturn.

To suggest that TS turned up, went for a brew, read the papers and let Monaghan, Briers and Poching get on with it themselves is at best stretching plausibility, and also very disrespectful.

I'm afraid you're wasting your time. There has been a re writing of history of Stalinist proportions. Something that initially is mentioned as conjecture eg Smith does no coaching or Monaghan coached the team is then adopted as a fact. That "fact" is then used to develop a theory in an ever downward spiral. Any suggestion that it may not be all Smith's fault is met with the answer that you deliberately close your eyes to what is going on in the club "Happy Clapper" style.
If you try to point out an occasional positive in these worrisome times there is no hope for you...

Re: 2017 and Tony Smith : Fri May 05, 2017 11:26 am  

Well said Captain Hook

Re: 2017 and Tony Smith : Fri May 05, 2017 12:10 pm  

Bigted wrote:

Yep just as I thought watching out your bedroom window. Must give you a fantastic insight into the week at training.

'Just as I thought' bit weird that.

In any case. the point being was that 'that TS takes a backseat and lets his assistants do the work'. So, when you look at the training pitch and notice you can see the assistants doing all the work and TS watching. You don't have to be a nuclear physicist to work out from that situation that:

A) TS takes a backseat role in training.

and;

B) The assistants do all the field work with the team.

Anything else that you would like clearing up?


Or perhaps you'd like to inform me of how you know this doesn't happen and that the training is spot on and that we just aren't getting the rub of the green. Perhaps the endless sets of scoots and unforced errors are actually us going in the right direction.

I'm not a super league coach but you don't have to be Wayne Bennett to realise that since Agar came to the club we lost all the flair that made us an entertaining team to watch.

Re: 2017 and Tony Smith : Fri May 05, 2017 12:15 pm  

morrisseyisawire wrote:

Whatever we think of the team's current malaise, the style of play and who is responsible, let's not decry TS achievements of yesteryear.

Michael Monaghan was a slightly above average scrum-half, playing like a slightly below average one.
Lee Briers was a hugely talented player with several years of inconsistency behind him

Neither was a coaching genius, and neither, in terms of coaching, was responsible for the upturn in the clubs fortune. Tony Smith was. He took those two in particular and gave them a framework to express their ability in their natural positions. He also made Briers, and the club as a whole, vastly more professional and that was key in our upturn.

To suggest that TS turned up, went for a brew, read the papers and let Monaghan, Briers and Poching get on with it themselves is at best stretching plausibility, and also very disrespectful.

My original point asked for a discussion on whether assistants have more direct influence on the team than we'd like to think. this was supported by Poaching being at two different clubs and their style of play and winning ratio improving dramatically. Not once did I suggest that TS turns up and does nothing. Merely asked a question on whether he's taking more or a back seat role than usual. Because since Agar has graced this club with his presence, we have been awful to watch.

Re: 2017 and Tony Smith : Fri May 05, 2017 12:56 pm  

Captain Hook wrote:

I'm afraid you're wasting your time. There has been a re writing of history of Stalinist proportions. Something that initially is mentioned as conjecture eg Smith does no coaching or Monaghan coached the team is then adopted as a fact. That "fact" is then used to develop a theory in an ever downward spiral. Any suggestion that it may not be all Smith's fault is met with the answer that you deliberately close your eyes to what is going on in the club "Happy Clapper" style.
If you try to point out an occasional positive in these worrisome times there is no hope for you...

I think Tony can take the credit for when we played well and takes the criticism when we are not - like now. We stink.

So in your view what blame for the current predicament can we fairly lay at Smith's door?

Re: 2017 and Tony Smith : Fri May 05, 2017 1:54 pm  

W71 my response related to a post suggesting that Smith didn't do anything. As for "blame", I've always considered that a fairly pointless exercise. BUT the factors that account for our current predicament? In no particular order injuries, loss of form, loss of confidence appear to me to be major issues. Part of the coach's job is to try and instill confidence and maximise performance, to whatever extent Smith has not done so then that is where he can be criticised.
You will realise I have not mentioned player recruitment/retention. This is because I have no idea what constraints are placed on bringing in new players apart from the obvious and highly significant Salary Cap the effect of which can not sensibly be ignored.

Re: 2017 and Tony Smith : Fri May 05, 2017 2:09 pm  

Captain Hook wrote:

In no particular order injuries, loss of form, loss of confidence appear to me to be major issues. Part of the coach's job is to try and instill confidence and maximise performance, to whatever extent Smith has not done so then that is where he can be criticised.

We demolished Brisbane at home with a 100% completion rate in the 1st half. How does a team walk away from a game like that with 'loss of form and loss of confidence'?

Between that night and the Cas game something happened in house and the team still hasn't recovered from it.