Re: Smith Out : Sat Jun 17, 2017 1:12 pm  

Uncle Rico wrote:

I don't deny that you or anyone else has a right to post their opinion and agree that is what forums are for. So whether I agree with your or others opinions matters not, in fact I think that it is a positive thing that we all don't share the same opinion every time on every subject.

However, where we might disagree is that I feel that it is important now and again to validate your opinion otherwise the argument has little chance of reaching the level of a debate. I think that it is a bit unbalanced to get your Collins English Pocket Dictionary out and post a definition of barren then discount certain successes as not up to your mark to maintain your position.

I don't understand why you included the Challenge Cup you could have gone for the GF 'jugular', or started your clock at 2012 instead of at the start of Smith's tenure, unless it didn't make our reading quite so uncomfortable? I could post some facts based on Smiths tenure and include the LLS but I don't think that would cut the mustard with you, or as you state quite a few others on here.

FWIW I think that the current TS regime has now run its race. At the moment I'm unsure whether that's him and Agar going, or him getting in different help say a Briers/Morley combo, I suppose that depends on how much truth there is in the lost dressing room rumour?

Finally, I do pick up on your posts quite frequently, mainly on the basis that you post frequently, you are opinionated and generally include some 'facts' which is all good (not that you need my validation of course). We may have even ended up at the same place on this subject it's just that our 'journey' has taken a different route particularly the timing and measure of our dissatisfaction.

OK fair enough. I picked the period of 5 years as it was the period since the last time we won a major trophy and it's probably a period in which we would have thought, back then in 2012, that we would in all likelihood win a GF in.

I was a massive Smith fan when he joined, and he had great success in the first 4 years. But the midas touch has long, long since gone.

For balance I have included the other clubs GF CC and WCC appearances and LLS, in the same period. Wins are shown in bold. I'm not sure this improves the position for Warrington.

Wigan - SL, SL CC, WCC, LLS, GF GF GF GF CF WCCF WCCF Domestic double.
Leeds - SL, SL CC CC WCC, GF GF CF CF WCCF WCCF WCCF Domestic treble.
St Helens - SL, LLS, GF. WCCF
Hull - 1CC, CCF CCF
Warrington - LLS. GF GF GF, CCF
Huddersfield - LLS
Castelford - CCF
Hull KR - CCF

Re: Smith Out : Sat Jun 17, 2017 4:08 pm  

We got a lot of the decisions today and still couldn't capitalise. Time for change.

Re: Smith Out : Sat Jun 17, 2017 4:15 pm  

Wigan gave us plenty of chances to win and we couldn't do it. Lineham, Hughes, Ratch all had poor games today. I've not seen a team concede a 40/20 on the last tackle before.

Re: Smith Out : Sat Jun 17, 2017 5:30 pm  

Surely he must go now. I would like to say that is our season over but sadly we all know it isn't with the middle 8s to try and muddle through with no leadership, no structure and no idea.

[Uncle Rico]

Re: Smith Out : Sat Jun 17, 2017 5:31 pm  

Wires71 wrote:

OK fair enough. I picked the period of 5 years as it was the period since the last time we won a major trophy and it's probably a period in which we would have thought, back then in 2012, that we would in all likelihood win a GF in.

I was a massive Smith fan when he joined, and he had great success in the first 4 years. But the midas touch has long, long since gone.

For balance I have included the other clubs GF CC and WCC appearances and LLS, in the same period. Wins are shown in bold. I'm not sure this improves the position for Warrington.

Wigan - SL, SL CC, WCC, LLS, GF GF GF GF CF WCCF WCCF Domestic double.
Leeds - SL, SL CC CC WCC, GF GF CF CF WCCF WCCF WCCF Domestic treble.
St Helens - SL, LLS, GF. WCCF
Hull - 1CC, CCF CCF
Warrington - LLS. GF GF GF, CCF
Huddersfield - LLS
Castelford - CCF
Hull KR - CCF

Thanks it is more balanced and I will leave this particular debate here, but, will leave you a final thought or two. As we are on a Smith Out thread if you take stock of our "barren" years what result would you expect in comparison to our peers and if you took stock of the Tony Smith Years from 2009 to 2016 does our position change?

It is prestigious but the WCCF does skew the length of the honours line above win a GF it's BIGOF

I think that even in our barren years it could be argued that we were 4th on the success ladder the disappointment was that we didn't get a couple of emboldened GF's along the way?

Re: Smith Out : Sat Jun 17, 2017 5:34 pm  

Uncle Rico wrote:

Thanks it is more balanced and I will leave this particular debate here, but, will leave you a final thought or two. As we are on a Smith Out thread if you take stock of our "barren" years what result would you expect in comparison to our peers and if you took stock of the Tony Smith Years from 2009 to 2016 does our position change?

It is prestigious but the WCCF does skew the length of the honours line above win a GF it's BIGOF

I think that even in our barren years it could be argued that we were 4th on the success ladder the disappointment was that we didn't get a couple of emboldened GF's along the way?

Yes fourth. It doesn't matter anyhow as Smith is here to stay. But I think if there were 1 or 2 GF wins in his 8 years we may feel a bit better about it.

Re: Smith Out : Sat Jun 17, 2017 5:45 pm  

Philth wrote:

Wigan gave us plenty of chances to win and we couldn't do it. Lineham, Hughes, Ratch all had poor games today. I've not seen a team concede a 40/20 on the last tackle before.

I think Lineham is turning into one of our better forwards.

Re: Smith Out : Sat Jun 17, 2017 5:48 pm  

To quote Oliver Cromwell

You have sat too long for any good you have been doing lately... Depart, I say; and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go!

Re: Smith Out : Sat Jun 17, 2017 5:55 pm  

.....is he still here?

Re: Smith Out : Sat Jun 17, 2017 6:01 pm  

He's not going anywhere let's be honest.