Re: Chambers and Marshall : Tue Aug 15, 2023 4:17 pm  

I think every winger who played outside gleeson(Riley, hicks, fa'fili)got 20 tries in a season. Big Henry even finished as super leagues top tryscorer one season. Gleeson was a world class centre.

Re: Chambers and Marshall : Tue Aug 15, 2023 4:56 pm  

easyWire wrote:

No doubt Gleeson didn’t really want to be here in 2005, but that anger seemed to spur him on. 2005 playing under Cullen’s attacking structure, was by far his best season at any club. He was consistently world class at a time none of our other players were even close to world class. A joy to watch, like a Sheikh’s racehorse.

However, we know where it went from there under THAT culture.

This is years later though, and he comes with big raps from the England RU players, who have said that Borthwick didn’t want to implement a lot of Gleeson’s ideas. Maybe during this stint Chambers will give him the freedom to experiment and try new things. I’m also looking forward to seeing what he can do.

I wish he had more to work with than Ratch and Matautia. I reckon Toby King would benefit from a Martin Gleeson centre masterclass.

Also, wasn't Cullen spoilt with a lot of great players. Gleeson, Morley, Briers, Michael Monaghan, Matt King, Chris Hicks, Westwood, Johns et al. It was criminal that he didn't do more with them.

[Fantastic Mr Catpiss]

Re: Chambers and Marshall : Tue Aug 15, 2023 4:58 pm  

easyWire wrote:

No doubt Gleeson didn’t really want to be here in 2005, but that anger seemed to spur him on. 2005 playing under Cullen’s attacking structure, was by far his best season at any club. He was consistently world class at a time none of our other players were even close to world class. A joy to watch, like a Sheikh’s racehorse.

However, we know where it went from there under THAT culture.

This is years later though, and he comes with big raps from the England RU players, who have said that Borthwick didn’t want to implement a lot of Gleeson’s ideas. Maybe during this stint Chambers will give him the freedom to experiment and try new things. I’m also looking forward to seeing what he can do.

I'll correct this, he didn't want to be here in 2004, he clearly had his head spinning during that press conference, it was a mad week, once 2005 came around he was a force to be reckoned with

Re: Chambers and Marshall : Wed Aug 16, 2023 10:46 am  

The day we signed Gleeson was really the turning point in signalling the club's ambition and changing the way we were thought of. It came at a really good point because we were in the first year of the new stadium but the results had stagnated a bit and bringing in Fa'afili and Gleeson really changed the atmosphere.

That press conference was certainly strange though! Gleeson looked like he was a hostage being shoved in front of the cameras and forced to make a statement. He really did not want to be there.
Cullen also seemed to be on edge, stressed and irritable. The whole event had negative vibes.

It was very different the next year when Johns signed and the press events had a celebratory mood.

[BOBBIE_IS_SUPERMAN]

Re: Chambers and Marshall : Thu Aug 17, 2023 3:28 pm  

I always thought Ryan Sheridan Looked like a bad (slightly melted) wax work Copy of Martin Gleeson .

Hopefully this will be a new and improved version.

Re: Chambers and Marshall : Thu Aug 17, 2023 4:05 pm  

Moe syslak wrote:

I think every winger who played outside gleeson(Riley, hicks, fa'fili)got 20 tries in a season. Big Henry even finished as super leagues top tryscorer one season. Gleeson was a world class centre.

Let's not forget the skilful kicking from Lee Briers played a very big part in many tries for Fa'aFili etc.
l

Re: Chambers and Marshall : Thu Aug 17, 2023 6:36 pm  

Let’s hope we’ve got MG on a decent short term contract. Eddie Jones is angling for a short term attack coach for Australia for World Cup.
He may of become disillusioned over the past week when he’s seen who he’s got to work with.

Re: Chambers and Marshall : Thu Aug 17, 2023 11:23 pm  

It's interesting to see the positive reaction to Gleeson coming back here, his reputation seems to have been rehabilitated with us because when he left there was a bit of a bad taste. One of Tony Smith's first moves was to ship him out and bring in Mathers, which was certainly a bold way to start as a new coach, but from what I remember it was regarded by pretty much all Wire fans (at least on here) as a positive move from TS. Wasn't quite "good riddance" but it was seen as a good signal to get him out of the dressing room.

I have mixed memories of Gleeson with us, but I was a big fan for a while. What I remember most was being surprised at just how good he was. Usually if Wire signs a big name they end up being a let down, but Gleeson was better than I thought, and I think we got him when he was going right into his prime.

Before he joined I thought he might be overrated. He'd been in the Huddersfield squad that went down, and Saints picked him up and he had a good first year when they won Super League and he got in the GB team. But then his second year with Saints wasn't as good and I remember he was one of the names that used to get brought up on here when people said David Waite just picked players on reputation, "if he didn't play for Saints he wouldn't be anywhere near". He'd started his third year well with Saints but then got banned and we signed him for the next year, so I wasn't sure whether he was really legit or if he was one of those like Calderwood or Chev Walker who never kicked on from the early hype.

But that first season when he played for us...I was absolutely wowed. He was an even better player than he had been at Saints. He was physically bigger by that point and he seemed to have everything, he had power and balance, great footwork, great hands, he was also a great decision maker. He was one of the fittest players around and never seemed to tire or struggle for stamina. The whole right side of our attack was a handful when he was there. We had Briers, Gleeson, Logan Swann and Fa'afili attacking down that flank...wonderful. The only thing that separated him from the all time great centres was maybe a yard of pace. He wasn't slow but he didn't have searing pace. Still, neither did Paul Newlove and I think peak Gleeson was up there with peak Newlove.

So even though he didn't seem thrilled to have joined us, you couldn't knock what he was doing on the field. He rarely got injured, he was consistent even when the team wasn't. He really did transform the team in 2005 - that was probably peak Super League in terms of quality of teams in the league overall especially at the top end, we came 4th but that was a good team that played excellent rugby, we were streets ahead of where we'd been any time in the previous decade and Gleeson was the biggest factor.

So why had things soured with the fans by the end? I think it was because year by year, Gleeson's performances tailed off a touch. 2005 he was absolutely elite. 2006, not quite as good but still great. 2007, dropped off a bit more. 2008, a bit more. It wasn't a steep decline and he was still always one of our better players but what used to grate was you would then see him play in internationals and he would go right back to his best form and was clearly one of the best players in the world all that time when he raised his game. It was really noticeable in the 2008 World Cup, when I was starting to think he was a player in decline on the evidence of his Wire performances but he dominated that World Cup then came back to Wire and went back to how he had been the year before with us.

It all contributed to a feeling that had been there all along, that he didn't want to play for us in the first place, and he was slowly losing interest as the years went on. It was irritating, but still it's not like he downed tools. There have been a lot of other Wire players who have tailed off far more quickly, and he was still one of the better centres in the league. But you never really felt he bought in to the Wire jersey or wanted to be here. He was just too good to not make an impact.

So when he went, I was one of those like most on here who thought, yes its the right time, he's going in the wrong direction, if we want to transform the culture players like him are best moved out. I remember feeling the same at the end for Kelly Shelford too who was another of my former favourites but seemed to tread water for a while before he left.

But you can't argue with the impact he made on the club and there hasn't been an English centre since who was as good as Gleeson was in the mid 2000s.

Re: Chambers and Marshall : Fri Aug 18, 2023 6:06 am  

sally cinnamon wrote:

It's interesting to see the positive reaction to Gleeson coming back here, his reputation seems to have been rehabilitated with us because when he left there was a bit of a bad taste. One of Tony Smith's first moves was to ship him out and bring in Mathers, which was certainly a bold way to start as a new coach, but from what I remember it was regarded by pretty much all Wire fans (at least on here) as a positive move from TS. Wasn't quite "good riddance" but it was seen as a good signal to get him out of the dressing room.

I have mixed memories of Gleeson with us, but I was a big fan for a while. What I remember most was being surprised at just how good he was. Usually if Wire signs a big name they end up being a let down, but Gleeson was better than I thought, and I think we got him when he was going right into his prime.

Before he joined I thought he might be overrated. He'd been in the Huddersfield squad that went down, and Saints picked him up and he had a good first year when they won Super League and he got in the GB team. But then his second year with Saints wasn't as good and I remember he was one of the names that used to get brought up on here when people said David Waite just picked players on reputation, "if he didn't play for Saints he wouldn't be anywhere near". He'd started his third year well with Saints but then got banned and we signed him for the next year, so I wasn't sure whether he was really legit or if he was one of those like Calderwood or Chev Walker who never kicked on from the early hype.

But that first season when he played for us...I was absolutely wowed. He was an even better player than he had been at Saints. He was physically bigger by that point and he seemed to have everything, he had power and balance, great footwork, great hands, he was also a great decision maker. He was one of the fittest players around and never seemed to tire or struggle for stamina. The whole right side of our attack was a handful when he was there. We had Briers, Gleeson, Logan Swann and Fa'afili attacking down that flank...wonderful. The only thing that separated him from the all time great centres was maybe a yard of pace. He wasn't slow but he didn't have searing pace. Still, neither did Paul Newlove and I think peak Gleeson was up there with peak Newlove.

So even though he didn't seem thrilled to have joined us, you couldn't knock what he was doing on the field. He rarely got injured, he was consistent even when the team wasn't. He really did transform the team in 2005 - that was probably peak Super League in terms of quality of teams in the league overall especially at the top end, we came 4th but that was a good team that played excellent rugby, we were streets ahead of where we'd been any time in the previous decade and Gleeson was the biggest factor.

So why had things soured with the fans by the end? I think it was because year by year, Gleeson's performances tailed off a touch. 2005 he was absolutely elite. 2006, not quite as good but still great. 2007, dropped off a bit more. 2008, a bit more. It wasn't a steep decline and he was still always one of our better players but what used to grate was you would then see him play in internationals and he would go right back to his best form and was clearly one of the best players in the world all that time when he raised his game. It was really noticeable in the 2008 World Cup, when I was starting to think he was a player in decline on the evidence of his Wire performances but he dominated that World Cup then came back to Wire and went back to how he had been the year before with us.

It all contributed to a feeling that had been there all along, that he didn't want to play for us in the first place, and he was slowly losing interest as the years went on. It was irritating, but still it's not like he downed tools. There have been a lot of other Wire players who have tailed off far more quickly, and he was still one of the better centres in the league. But you never really felt he bought in to the Wire jersey or wanted to be here. He was just too good to not make an impact.

So when he went, I was one of those like most on here who thought, yes its the right time, he's going in the wrong direction, if we want to transform the culture players like him are best moved out. I remember feeling the same at the end for Kelly Shelford too who was another of my former favourites but seemed to tread water for a while before he left.

But you can't argue with the impact he made on the club and there hasn't been an English centre since who was as good as Gleeson was in the mid 2000s.

It tailed off because the rumours and stories you heard were true.
I saw it first hand after the defeat to Hull Sharks. Him, mini Glee and Briers, plus I saw Andrew Johns at it too.
As for big glee ‘wow’ games, I saw only one, his first game that was a friendly, he scores 4 tries? Don’t think he scored 4 all season after.

Re: Chambers and Marshall : Fri Aug 18, 2023 6:17 am  

Is it true his nickname was "germ" due to alleged aversion to soapy water?

Add him to the list of other good players Cullen squandered, mired in the drinking culture and lack of professionalism.