Re: The Academy: 2 decades of mediocrity : Sun Mar 04, 2018 1:16 am  

lefty goldblatt wrote:

SC's list is a damping indictment if how far our scouting/development of youth has fallen, since it's 90's revamp. Those opening names still sit very well with me (bar Knott, never kicked on, for me).

Since then, only Wood, Riley, Penny and Currie are the only ones to come close. The rest (bar permacrock Rhys Evans....what might have been) are merely flotsam and jetsam or plain tosh.

So that's it. 10 players in 25 years. That's p155p00r by most standards, let alone a club who's youth policy is looked on with envious eyes.

With RU going pro 20+ years ago, top notch Aussies don't come here anymore, apart from idiots who can't behave themselves, and our underperforming youth policy, no wonder Moran's chequebook is regularly on his desk.

It would be quite telling to list the output of Wigan, Leeds and Saints during that 25 years by means of comparison.

Re: The Academy: 2 decades of mediocrity : Sun Mar 04, 2018 7:17 am  

Here are just some of Wigan's.

Kris Radlinski, Simon Haughton, Sean Long, Andy Johnson, Darryl Cardiss, Paul Johnson, Rob Smyth, Jon Clarke, Lee Gilmour, Stephen Wild, Luke Robinson, Shaun Briscoe, Sean O'Loughlin, Kevin Brown, Gareth Hock, Harrison Hansen, Paul Prescott, Bryn Hargreaves, Darrell Goulding, Joel Tomkins, Mike McIlorum, Lee Mossop, Sam Tomkins, Josh Charnley, Liam Farrell, Stefan Marsh, Jack Hughes, Joe Mellor, Dom Crosby, Sam Powell, Matt Russell, Logan Tomkins, Joe Burgess, Ryan Hampshire, Dominic Manfredi, Lewis Tierney, George Williams, Ryan Sutton, Oliver Gildart, Tom Davies, Liam Marshall.

Re: The Academy: 2 decades of mediocrity : Sun Mar 04, 2018 9:38 am  

Good discussion so far. There are lots of issues.
My observations are based on experience a while back so be out of date (I hope they are) but are that:-

Warrington sign players based very strongly on physique and fitness. If you are not going to be 6'3" and 15 stone they are not interested. Kyle Eastmond and Joe Mellor are two players who could have been at the club. Often they seem to sign players who are early maturers and have peaked already. Players are signed for achievement not potential. (Sam Tomkins at 15 had two Warrington based players ahead of him at county level but was still growing up - and maybe one day will )

They don't build enough skills. Lots of weights. Lots of fitness. (Easy to coach) But no large scale skills development. Targets are set for fitness, body fat, weights lifted, miles run but not for skills

Academy games are seen as about winning rather than a chance to build your game and your skills. Players look no different at 18 than at 15 - same flaws, same qualities - maybe this flows through to first team too. I think players learn to hide weaknesses rather than correct them

Players are signed who (generally) want to play rugby - they then get to play no games for a year or two are excluded from playing amateur rugby or even 5 a side with their mates. If you have hopes of playing rugby and don't play, you fall out of love with the game. Most who don't get a contract at the end of their academy time never play rugby again. Most are not Warrington supporters now

The club behave as if they own the players. Social life scrutinised, Club activities take priority. You must train every week and extras are encouraged. And for £60 a week. With a 10% chance of success. Work a day a week at Tesco or an evening in a bar and the lifestyle is better.

Players from outside the area get better deals to attract them to Warrington. They are not necessarily better players but Warrington assume that locals will be loyal.

If/once you get to first team, no one pushes your development - you are there to do a job and you do it and you stay - you don't and you are out. Academy coaches have done their job and first team coaches have a product to fill a gap. There is little support for getting the player to a higher level.

Just a thought or two.....

M

Re: The Academy: 2 decades of mediocrity : Sun Mar 04, 2018 12:12 pm  

Well the club must have identified this as a problem and recruited Peter Riding, from Castleford, as Head of Youth. But I am confused with who is in charge of what here. https://warringtonwolves.com/performance-team/ We have a Head of Performance, then a Performance Manager. A head of youth, then 6 assistant u16 coaches. Jobs for the boys in 3 positions. Please tell me it's not Gary Chambers and his dad teaching u16 back play. The Wigan setup is very different with separate Performance and Rugby departments. They have Sean O'Loughlin (current international, club captain, multiple GF and CC, WCC winning club legend) working with the U19s.

Well the club must have identified this as a problem and recruited Peter Riding, from Castleford, as Head of Youth. But I am confused with who is in charge of what here. https://warringtonwolves.com/performance-team/ We have a Head of Performance, then a Performance Manager. A head of youth, then 6 assistant u16 coaches. Jobs for the boys in 3 positions. Please tell me it's not Gary Chambers and his dad teaching u16 back play. The Wigan setup is very different with separate Performance and Rugby departments. They have Sean O'Loughlin (current international, club captain, multiple GF and CC, WCC winning club legend) working with the U19s.

Re: The Academy: 2 decades of mediocrity : Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:48 pm  

A real area of concern. Hopefully an area Price will be looking at.
Out of curiosity I wonder if young players look at that list and think they will have a better chance of being nurtured and developed elsewhere? Ben Currie being an exception.

Re: The Academy: 2 decades of mediocrity : Mon Mar 05, 2018 7:26 pm  

Captain Hook wrote:

A real area of concern. Hopefully an area Price will be looking at.
Out of curiosity I wonder if young players look at that list and think they will have a better chance of being nurtured and developed elsewhere? Ben Currie being an exception.

Yes the young players must do that. If you had academy offers from Wigan, Salford and Warrington - where would you think you have the best opportunity to become a top player?

Re: The Academy: 2 decades of mediocrity : Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:06 pm  

What is Salfords record like? Ratchford? Myler?

Re: The Academy: 2 decades of mediocrity : Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:19 pm  

Captain Hook wrote:

What is Salfords record like? Ratchford? Myler?

Myler came from Widnes .... replace with Théo Fages, Jordan Turner & Marc Sneyd

Re: The Academy: 2 decades of mediocrity : Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:19 pm  

Builth Wells Wire wrote:

Myler came from Widnes .... replace with Théo Fages, Jordan Turner & Marc Sneyd

As soon as I posted it I realised there was only 1 place Myler could've come from!

[Fantastic Mr Catpiss]

Re: The Academy: 2 decades of mediocrity : Tue Mar 06, 2018 10:08 am  

Builth Wells Wire wrote:

Myler came from Widnes .... replace with Théo Fages, Jordan Turner & Marc Sneyd

niall evalds, the walne brothers.