Re: Luther Burrell : Sat Jun 29, 2019 8:07 pm  

lefty goldblatt wrote:

...and there we have it, in a nutshell.
He's not a scapegoat. He just isn't at the level we require. He doesn't beat men. He rarely throws out a tryscoring pass. He simply goes through the motions.

I'm tired of the lad, now. I don't dislike him at all. He's simply not good enough.
It's coming to something, when we REALLY NEED Kevin Brown back, asap, just for something different.

Yes. It's not about "hating" it's about ability. He has had a long, long time to show his ability and you could probably count his moments of flair on the fingers of one hand. Compare him to Fages or Lomax and he is a million miles away and they are not world beaters.

All this talk about being "not far off" and "beating Saints when it matters". We managed ONE try, at home, in 80 minutes and that was a fluke. We are nowhere near threatening enough for the field position we have.

The frustration is when people refuse to see it. Like they did will all the other sub-standard players we had to move on in the last few years to lesser clubs/out of the game.

I appreciate he'll be out of the side for 2020, but unless Price has written off 2019, and we truly want to have a chance of winning something, we need to replace him now.

Re: Luther Burrell : Sat Jun 29, 2019 9:33 pm  

Wires71 wrote:

The frustration is when people refuse to see it. Like they did will all the other sub-standard players we had to move on in the last few years to lesser clubs/out of the game.

I appreciate he'll be out of the side for 2020, but unless Price has written off 2019, and we truly want to have a chance of winning something, we need to replace him now.

I don't think people refused to see it with all the other sub-standard players we have had to move on. There are probably three tiers of players who have come through our Academy and played a fair bit in the first team:

Tier 1: players over whom there is no doubt about their SL quality and who would get in to most or all other teams in SL: eg Wood, Cooper, Currie.
Tier 2: players who have a decent game once in a while and aren't obviously out of their depth in SL, but wouldn't interest any rival club with ambitions to win trophies, and we're the biggest club they will ever play for: eg Mark Gleeson, Sibbit, Noone, Pickersgill, Penny, Riley, Evans, O'Brien. Some of these last quite a long time in the first team.
Tier 3: players who are fighting to keep their heads above water in SL from their debut, and its only a matter of time before they get cut and drop down, often to the Championship. Sadly the vast majority of our Academy products fit in this category.

The fans generally agree with each other about any Tier 1 or Tier 3 players, it's only Tier 2 where you get the fanbase split, some are loyal by default to a home-grown player and like to hang on to the hope that with more first team games they will get better and turn in to a Tier 1 player, where as others have seen it all before and get a sense quite early on that the player isn't going to be good enough and get more agitated. Patton is a Tier 2 player rather than Tier 3 which is why he has a few supporters on here.

Toby King is an interesting one. I think he's a borderline Tier 1/2. Of those players above, Sibbit, Noone, Penny and Riley all had their moments when they looked like they could go either way but all ended up Tier 2s. My gut instinct is that King will as well, but the jury is still out.

Re: Luther Burrell : Sun Jun 30, 2019 11:09 am  

sally cinnamon wrote:

I don't think people refused to see it with all the other sub-standard players we have had to move on. There are probably three tiers of players who have come through our Academy and played a fair bit in the first team:

Tier 1: players over whom there is no doubt about their SL quality and who would get in to most or all other teams in SL: eg Wood, Cooper, Currie.
Tier 2: players who have a decent game once in a while and aren't obviously out of their depth in SL, but wouldn't interest any rival club with ambitions to win trophies, and we're the biggest club they will ever play for: eg Mark Gleeson, Sibbit, Noone, Pickersgill, Penny, Riley, Evans, O'Brien. Some of these last quite a long time in the first team.
Tier 3: players who are fighting to keep their heads above water in SL from their debut, and its only a matter of time before they get cut and drop down, often to the Championship. Sadly the vast majority of our Academy products fit in this category.

The fans generally agree with each other about any Tier 1 or Tier 3 players, it's only Tier 2 where you get the fanbase split, some are loyal by default to a home-grown player and like to hang on to the hope that with more first team games they will get better and turn in to a Tier 1 player, where as others have seen it all before and get a sense quite early on that the player isn't going to be good enough and get more agitated. Patton is a Tier 2 player rather than Tier 3 which is why he has a few supporters on here.

Toby King is an interesting one. I think he's a borderline Tier 1/2. Of those players above, Sibbit, Noone, Penny and Riley all had their moments when they looked like they could go either way but all ended up Tier 2s. My gut instinct is that King will as well, but the jury is still out.

Good post. King is most definitely Tier 2 also when you compare with the quality of our rivals centres. The amount of ball that Charnley gets is criminal, he is having to rely on scraps. Like having a Rolls Royce in the garage and losing the keys. Mind you Lineham does not fair much better either but at least Goodwyn is a handful with ball in hand. Probably why we have only managed 3 tries against Saints in both games this season. (with them scoring 9). Before Mamo scored we had gone almost 2 hours of not being able to score a try against St Helens. Yet I'm comforted that we are not that far away ...

Re: Luther Burrell : Sun Jun 30, 2019 11:44 am  

People don't seem too happy with the alleged Gelling signing but Gelling and Burrell in the centres gives us some size, pace, good hands and menace on both sides. I think King's best hopes lie in the second row he just doesn't offer any threat as a centre.

Re: Luther Burrell : Sun Jun 30, 2019 12:14 pm  

ratticusfinch wrote:

People don't seem too happy with the alleged Gelling signing but Gelling and Burrell in the centres gives us some size, pace, good hands and menace on both sides. I think King's best hopes lie in the second row he just doesn't offer any threat as a centre.

I liked Gelling when he played for Wigan and Burrell has monstrous size which should cause problems. King, in my opinion, is not much of an upgrade from Rhys Evans (remember him), actually Rhys was much stronger defensively.

Re: Luther Burrell : Sun Jun 30, 2019 2:17 pm  

I'm very happy with Gelling and Burrell.
A big good un beats a small good un.

Re: Luther Burrell : Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:13 pm  

Have we had a really decent centre since Gleeson who most certainly knew how to put his wing man in. I think I could have scored one or two playing on the wing with him inside. None of our current centres, Atkins, King and Goodwin are good distributors but I still do have hopes for King. Don't know yet if Burrell can pass

Re: Luther Burrell : Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:16 pm  

Just reelecting on Gelling. To be honest I quite rated him at Wigan and thought he was always capable of something. My Wigan supporting cousin however didn't really rate him at all saying that for every decent thing there were 3 or more shockers

Re: Luther Burrell : Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:20 pm  

However, Toby King has been immense in defence

Re: Luther Burrell : Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:21 pm  

The Railwayman wrote: Don't know yet if Burrell can pass https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xi6SVo2kqk

The Railwayman wrote: Don't know yet if Burrell can pass https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xi6SVo2kqk