Re: CEO agrees season was a failure : Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:30 am  

It's worth a think about which other teams in the league have had a "successful season".
We supporters expect a lot of our teams.
So Salford have had a good 'un but they have the big problem of losing lots of players at the end of the year ... and I'm sure their supporters will not be happy with that.
St Helens obviously but many of their supporters were baying for blood after the Cup Final.
Anyone else?
Are rugby league supporters ever happy with their own team?

Wire had an awful end to the season but many other clubs would have loved to finish 4th and win the Challenge Cup. e.g. Wigan, Leeds, Hull, Cas.
Cheer up boys. I think we know exactly what we'll be working on during pre-season.

Re: CEO agrees season was a failure : Mon Oct 07, 2019 11:10 am  

[quote="Smiffy27

Cheer up boys. I think we know exactly what we'll be working on during pre-season.[/quote]


My list would certainly contain attacking moves and discipline and not forgetting attacking moves and discipline with additional focus on attacking moves and discipline

Re: CEO agrees season was a failure : Mon Oct 07, 2019 11:20 am  

And when they have sorted that out lets have an aggressive defensive line moving up against the attack and not just standing still just waiting for them

Re: CEO agrees season was a failure : Mon Oct 07, 2019 12:11 pm  

Having watched a few of the games leading up to the GF, it's clear to me that most teams have adopted the 5 drives and a kick philosophy. It's boring but it does get results. The mistake we appear to have made is employing the tactic as soon as Ratchford was out injured and then never having the confidence to move away from it. I do wonder, if we reverted back to the 5m rule and hence deep attacking lines, whether the game would again become more entertaining.

Re: CEO agrees season was a failure : Mon Oct 07, 2019 12:52 pm  

The Railwayman wrote:

My list would certainly contain attacking moves and discipline and not forgetting attacking moves and discipline with additional focus on attacking moves and discipline

I have a dream whereby we have a full box of attacking moves and when we get near the line you wonder ... which one are they going to use now or will it be a variation ... or something new.
Got to go the van has just pulled up outside my house to take me away.

Re: CEO agrees season was a failure : Mon Oct 07, 2019 1:44 pm  

The Railwayman wrote:

My list would certainly contain attacking moves and discipline and not forgetting attacking moves and discipline with additional focus on attacking moves and discipline

A bit much to ask that...perhaps we should just work on 2 of them.

Re: CEO agrees season was a failure : Mon Oct 07, 2019 5:56 pm  

Smiffy27 wrote:

It's worth a think about which other teams in the league have had a "successful season".
We supporters expect a lot of our teams.
So Salford have had a good 'un but they have the big problem of losing lots of players at the end of the year ... and I'm sure their supporters will not be happy with that.
St Helens obviously but many of their supporters were baying for blood after the Cup Final.
Anyone else?
Are rugby league supporters ever happy with their own team?

Wire had an awful end to the season but many other clubs would have loved to finish 4th and win the Challenge Cup. e.g. Wigan, Leeds, Hull, Cas.
Cheer up boys. I think we know exactly what we'll be working on during pre-season.

I agree with this. When sports fans take the macho attitude like "only the Grand Final is acceptable, anything else is failure" then they are set for a life of disappointment, especially if they support a team like Wire.

I think if this is your attitude you have to think hard about how much money you are going to spend on watching sport over your lifetime, how many seasons you are likely to be happy and how many you are likely to be frustrated and think is it really worth it. You're spending tons of money and tons of your leisure time on something that is only going to lead to stress and frustration.

The other thing that amuses me about this is that if these people held up a mirror to themselves and their own lives, are they relentless winners/achievers, who do everything it takes to find the edge to greatness in life? Are they Steve Jobs/Elon Musk type characters who reject sleep so they can be working on their latest entrepreneurial project in the early hours of the morning, fuelled by bulletproof coffees, so they can get an edge over their rivals. Or are they just average Joes in average jobs who work 9 till 5 then enjoy an evening down the pub or watching Netflix with takeaways, and then turn on this relentless second-place-is-nowhere mindset just when it comes to watching their sports team....

I'm not knocking average Joes because that is what I am. Also if I was having this conversation with Shaun Edwards / Ellery Hanley and they were saying no, second place is first loser etc I would at least find their mindset authentic. But it is curious that people are so keen to apply it to others when they wouldn't go near that mindset themselves....

Now I am not saying that we should all sit and clap and be happy about mediocrity and I have a lot of whinges about the club on this forum, you've all heard my moans about the recruitment, junior development over the past few years being substandard and probably most fans think the same.

But I think as a fan you can broaden your definition of success. For me it goes wider than just did you win the SL trophy and is about did the players achieve something above and beyond what you would have expected them to with their talent. Some of the most enjoyable seasons I have had as a Wire fan were not the ones where we won stuff. I really enjoyed the rollercoaster of 89/90 that finished with losing at Wembley. Probably my favourite ever Wire season is still 93/94 when we came so close to winning the league but you could look at guys like Greg Mackey, Kevin Ellis, Paul Cullen and say these were guys who you knew gave everything and stood for some values you want to associate with Wire. I got a similar feeling about Cullen's team of 2003 when they made the playoffs, with guys like Fozzard, Burns, Domic, Nat Wood. Those were hugely enjoyable seasons when I was proud of Wire.

Also although I have found 2019 frustrating I had the same feeling at Wembley. You have to respect winning a major trophy. This wasn't a team that is a well oiled machine made for greatness, there are a lot of holes in the line up in terms of quality and a lot of things wrong (hence the frustration). BUT the aim of the game is about winning major trophies, and these guys found a way to win. I've seen Wire sides before, especially in Grand Finals, who were superbly refined machines set up to win, but they found a way to lose the big game. This year was the total opposite. Now we went back to being crap again after that, but in that moment, when it counted most of all at Wembley, we beat a Saints team which is set up to be a winning machine and couldn't deal with us. That moment will last with me much longer than I will remember the frustration of our playoff loss and end of season form.

So, yes, 2019 for me was a season which has given me fulfilment as a Wire fan and I expect when I come to the end of my days and reflect on my favourite memories watching Wire there is going to be one from 2019 for sure.

Re: CEO agrees season was a failure : Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:23 pm  

Sally - surely if the CC Final win over Stains will go down as one of your favourite Wire memories then you should at least update your signature to reflect said win?

Re: CEO agrees season was a failure : Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:47 pm  

sally cinnamon wrote:

I agree with this. When sports fans take the macho attitude like "only the Grand Final is acceptable, anything else is failure" then they are set for a life of disappointment, especially if they support a team like Wire.

I think if this is your attitude you have to think hard about how much money you are going to spend on watching sport over your lifetime, how many seasons you are likely to be happy and how many you are likely to be frustrated and think is it really worth it. You're spending tons of money and tons of your leisure time on something that is only going to lead to stress and frustration.

The other thing that amuses me about this is that if these people held up a mirror to themselves and their own lives, are they relentless winners/achievers, who do everything it takes to find the edge to greatness in life? Are they Steve Jobs/Elon Musk type characters who reject sleep so they can be working on their latest entrepreneurial project in the early hours of the morning, fuelled by bulletproof coffees, so they can get an edge over their rivals. Or are they just average Joes in average jobs who work 9 till 5 then enjoy an evening down the pub or watching Netflix with takeaways, and then turn on this relentless second-place-is-nowhere mindset just when it comes to watching their sports team....

I'm not knocking average Joes because that is what I am. Also if I was having this conversation with Shaun Edwards / Ellery Hanley and they were saying no, second place is first loser etc I would at least find their mindset authentic. But it is curious that people are so keen to apply it to others when they wouldn't go near that mindset themselves....

Now I am not saying that we should all sit and clap and be happy about mediocrity and I have a lot of whinges about the club on this forum, you've all heard my moans about the recruitment, junior development over the past few years being substandard and probably most fans think the same.

But I think as a fan you can broaden your definition of success. For me it goes wider than just did you win the SL trophy and is about did the players achieve something above and beyond what you would have expected them to with their talent. Some of the most enjoyable seasons I have had as a Wire fan were not the ones where we won stuff. I really enjoyed the rollercoaster of 89/90 that finished with losing at Wembley. Probably my favourite ever Wire season is still 93/94 when we came so close to winning the league but you could look at guys like Greg Mackey, Kevin Ellis, Paul Cullen and say these were guys who you knew gave everything and stood for some values you want to associate with Wire. I got a similar feeling about Cullen's team of 2003 when they made the playoffs, with guys like Fozzard, Burns, Domic, Nat Wood. Those were hugely enjoyable seasons when I was proud of Wire.

Also although I have found 2019 frustrating I had the same feeling at Wembley. You have to respect winning a major trophy. This wasn't a team that is a well oiled machine made for greatness, there are a lot of holes in the line up in terms of quality and a lot of things wrong (hence the frustration). BUT the aim of the game is about winning major trophies, and these guys found a way to win. I've seen Wire sides before, especially in Grand Finals, who were superbly refined machines set up to win, but they found a way to lose the big game. This year was the total opposite. Now we went back to being crap again after that, but in that moment, when it counted most of all at Wembley, we beat a Saints team which is set up to be a winning machine and couldn't deal with us. That moment will last with me much longer than I will remember the frustration of our playoff loss and end of season form.

So, yes, 2019 for me was a season which has given me fulfilment as a Wire fan and I expect when I come to the end of my days and reflect on my favourite memories watching Wire there is going to be one from 2019 for sure.

Liverpool, City, Utd fans all expect their team to be challenging to be the best because they have the resources to do so. Same for Warrington. I dont believe the average City fan is any more of a high achiever than Warrington fan yet the expectation holds. Ofcourse this expectation is fueled by the clubs custodians exclamations of what they are try to achieve. In truth is any Wire fan that far away from the CEO opinion?

I agree with the point on frustration though. There was no frustration in the 80s, 90, and pre HJ because we didnt expect to achieve anything.

Re: CEO agrees season was a failure : Mon Oct 07, 2019 7:25 pm  

From as early as Easter Monday the team hasn't been firing on all cylinders & but for a good start to the season we would have been in dire straits this year. Apart from Wembley, the team has been in terminal decline for at least half of the season through lack of Plan B, poor discipline ,poor handling etc etc. Take away Wembley & it has been a very poor season.