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Re: Gelling - gone? Mon Apr 20, 2020 1:28 pm  

ninearches wrote:
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There is a famous saying "one swallow doesn't make a summer" ,but apart from his baggage ,when Ant has played he has been one of our better performers, imo.
Re: Gelling - gone? Mon Apr 20, 2020 6:33 pm  
The Railwayman Cheeky half-back
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ninearches wrote:
There is a famous saying "one swallow doesn't make a summer" ,but apart from his baggage ,when Ant has played he has been one of our better performers, imo.


Agree. A decent signing but I hope he concentrates on his rugby as well as his social media stuff.

As for Watkins, I think his release from Aus suited both parties even if the circumstances are unfortunate. He could have still spent time in the UK with his Dad and stayed relatively fit as they are nowhere near restarting their season either. Toronto seems an odd move as they are allegedly maxed out on the salary cap and not exactly close to home either even though they are obviously in the UK a lot.
Re: Gelling - gone? Mon Apr 20, 2020 9:44 pm  

rubber duckie User avatar
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Toronto are pretty much based in Manchester, so it suits KW if he’s signed to them.
once a wire always a wire
Re: Gelling - gone? Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:01 am  
The Railwayman Cheeky half-back
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Fair point
Re: Gelling - gone? Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:36 am  

Alffi_7 wrote:
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The Railwayman wrote:
Agree. A decent signing but I hope he concentrates on his rugby as well as his social media stuff.

As for Watkins, I think his release from Aus suited both parties even if the circumstances are unfortunate. He could have still spent time in the UK with his Dad and stayed relatively fit as they are nowhere near restarting their season either. Toronto seems an odd move as they are allegedly maxed out on the salary cap and not exactly close to home either even though they are obviously in the UK a lot.


As I mentioned above, I think they have taken advantage of the fact that they have reduced salaries by 30+%, this has given them space on the salary cap as this has stayed static at £2.1m + Exemptions. I have some sympathy with Toronto and their salary cap situation, but this doesn't sit to well with me.
Re: Gelling - gone? Tue Apr 21, 2020 10:19 am  
Fantastic Mr Catpiss 100% League Network
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its very 'against the spirit of the cap'
Re: Gelling - gone? Tue Apr 21, 2020 12:27 pm  

Or thane wrote:
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Alffi_7 wrote:
As I mentioned above, I think they have taken advantage of the fact that they have reduced salaries by 30+%, this has given them space on the salary cap as this has stayed static at £2.1m + Exemptions. I have some sympathy with Toronto and their salary cap situation, but this doesn't sit to well with me.

I don't have sympathy to be honest, they've chosen to pay over the odds for players. I get what mcdermott dmsays witb attracting players etc but there's plenty of people who would play for them without demanding higher wages just because they're abroad.
Re: Gelling - gone? Wed Apr 22, 2020 1:59 am  

rubber duckie User avatar
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Fantastic Mr Catpiss wrote:
its very 'against the spirit of the cap'

Pies have been doing that since it’s inception.
once a wire always a wire
Re: Gelling - gone? Wed Apr 22, 2020 12:08 pm  

Alffi_7 wrote:
Alffi_7 Free-scoring winger
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Or thane wrote:
I don't have sympathy to be honest, they've chosen to pay over the odds for players. I get what mcdermott dmsays witb attracting players etc but there's plenty of people who would play for them without demanding higher wages just because they're abroad.


Paying more to attract players as a growing club is nothing new, we went through the same thing when we were bringing the likes of Morley, King, Monaghan to the club, I'm sure we would have needed to pay more for the same players if they were being targeted by Leeds, Wigan or Saints. Salford did similar when they had Koucash and they were trying to buy high quality players from a perceived lower club position. It's magnified for Toronto as they have been trying to move up three divisions in 3/4 years, so the contracts they were handing out in years 1 & 2 are probably inflated as they were trying to attract SL players to a Championship one / Championship team - a tricky situation to handle. That's not really where my sympathy comes from with Toronto though, it was their choice to grow fast. As far as I know their accommodation in Toronto is not provided for them, they have to pay for it themselves, similarly and obviously they have to maintain a house in the UK, so all that is counted in the salary cap.

Also try as they might they are never going to get the £100k salary dispensation for home grown players, for at least another 10-20 years as they develop player pathways. There should be a benefit to developing your own players, so I agree with it in principle - just maybe Toronto should be given £100k allowance to the salary cap in years 1 - 5 then maybe reducing on a sliding scale as they progress. That way they are not penalised by being an expansion club and have the incentive to develop their own players.

Personally I would have gone to a franchise model as soon as Toronto came in, with the plan to expand to 14 teams with Toulouse and London - but that's another subject.
Re: Gelling - gone? Wed Apr 22, 2020 1:31 pm  
Fantastic Mr Catpiss 100% League Network
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Alffi_7 wrote:
Paying more to attract players as a growing club is nothing new, we went through the same thing when we were bringing the likes of Morley, King, Monaghan to the club, I'm sure we would have needed to pay more for the same players if they were being targeted by Leeds, Wigan or Saints. Salford did similar when they had Koucash and they were trying to buy high quality players from a perceived lower club position. It's magnified for Toronto as they have been trying to move up three divisions in 3/4 years, so the contracts they were handing out in years 1 & 2 are probably inflated as they were trying to attract SL players to a Championship one / Championship team - a tricky situation to handle. That's not really where my sympathy comes from with Toronto though, it was their choice to grow fast. As far as I know their accommodation in Toronto is not provided for them, they have to pay for it themselves, similarly and obviously they have to maintain a house in the UK, so all that is counted in the salary cap.

Also try as they might they are never going to get the £100k salary dispensation for home grown players, for at least another 10-20 years as they develop player pathways. There should be a benefit to developing your own players, so I agree with it in principle - just maybe Toronto should be given £100k allowance to the salary cap in years 1 - 5 then maybe reducing on a sliding scale as they progress. That way they are not penalised by being an expansion club and have the incentive to develop their own players.

Personally I would have gone to a franchise model as soon as Toronto came in, with the plan to expand to 14 teams with Toulouse and London - but that's another subject.


mm, not sure i buy that, here's the squad for the first season



1 Samoa Quentin Laulu-Togaga'e Fullback
2 England Jonathan Pownall Wing
3 England Greg Worthington Centre
4 England Craig Hall Centre
5 Republic of Ireland Liam Kay Wing
6 Australia Blake Wallace Stand-off
7 Canada Rhys Jacks Scrum-half
8 Tonga Fuifui Moimoi Prop
9 Republic of Ireland Bob Beswick Hooker
10 Wales Daniel Fleming Prop
11 England Andrew Dixon Second-row 8
12 England James Laithwaite Second-row
13 England Jack Bussey Loose forward
14 England Gary Wheeler Stand-off
15 United States Ryan Burroughs Wing
16 England Shaun Pick Second-row
17 England Richard Whiting Second-row
19 England Steve Crossley Prop
20 United States Tom Dempsey Prop
21 England Adam Sidlow Prop
23 England Toby Everett Prop
24 Wales Sean Penkywicz Hooker 4
25 England Ryan Bailey Prop
26 United States Joe Eichner Second-row
27 Scotland Ryan Brierley Scrum-half
28 Canada Quinn Ngawati
29 Wales Jacob Emmitt

not a lot of SL signings in there, laithwaite and wheeler we know of, bailey? craig hall was at wakey, it looks like they've overpaid to wrestle a lot of ex leigh players away to come play for rowley. The rest are odds and sods from around the championship.
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