Hull Kingston Rovers : Sat Oct 12, 2024 12:24 pm  

Hull Kingston Rovers, are hours away from playing in the 2024 Super League Grand Final, which quite frankly is an amazing achievement. I have been considering how they got there, and if there is a timeline it all converges on 12th August 2023. The same day that Leigh broke a 52 year hoodoo and lifted the Challenge Cup. On that day Leigh went into the final having already defeated Rovers both Home and Away. Although evenly matched, Leigh had the measure of KR and in the end the game needed to be decided by Golden Point. Since this point the gap between Hull KR and Leigh has become a chasm many games between the two teams (mostly played at Craven Park) have gone the way of the Robins.
Hull KR took that defeat as a sign and have been ruthless in the transfer market and are looking even stronger for the 2025 season regardless of what happens today. Rovers have become the road map for building a successful club, and in my opinion have achieved this by being more ruthless than teams like Leigh. Players have come onto the market that Leigh have been linked to or that I as a rabid fan would like to see Leopard print.
Wakefield were relegated at the end of the 2023 season and as per usual practice the remaining Super League team picked the carcass clean. Tanginoa and Whitbread are both players that were linked to Leigh but both turned up in East Hull and became integral in the 2024 team. Having lost a starting halfback, Leigh could have been interested in Tyrone May, who was instrumental in a successful season at Catalans, but true to form he appears at Craven Park. The strangest example was possibly the menage a trois with Oliver Gildart, signing for Hull KR and appearing on loan at the LSV.
The rollcall for 2025 is no different, Jared Waerea-Hargreaves might have been considered a good fit for a team losing Amone, O’Donnell and Asiata, but no KR snap up a marquee forward. Rhyse Martin turned down an extension at the Rhinos, Leigh offered what was reported to be a sizeable contract, before dropping out with interest from both Leeds and Warrington. Guess what? he signs for the Robins.
The question must be raised as to how certain teams are able to fit their talented squads into a Salary capped sport. Beaumont has stated that Leigh are salary capped and can only support around 21 squad players, with handful of reserves and both today’s Grand Final teams are bursting with talent. It is a shame the salary cap is not more transparent for the fans, so we can all see the creative accounting going on at Wigan and Hull KR.

Re: Hull Kingston Rovers : Sat Oct 12, 2024 8:36 pm  

It won't have anything to do with creative accounting. The live auditing of the cap will see to that.

The fact that we have no academy, and only had a reserve team established this year means we wont get as much value for our salary cap as other teams. There are dispensations on salary cap for club trained players, plus a lower cap value for club trained marquee players.

We've used around 30 players this year. And all of them have had to be recruited from other clubs. We're probably spending more money on players 21-30 than anyone else in SL, who will be bringing players through as fringe players. As a result we probably can't offer as much to players that we want to bring in to improve the 13 as KR were able to last year. Because they have their academy and reserves setup, they could focus on quality, not quantity like us.

All of the above shows how incredible a job that Chester and Lam have done this last three years.

Re: Hull Kingston Rovers : Mon Oct 14, 2024 6:47 am  

Of all the SL players mentioned for me personally not getting Martin was the only let down and I say that from the perspective of how he is already a solid and useful player, the others need the touch of a Lam (or indeed Peters) to get them to a similar solid and consistent level.

I think we're at the start of another Wigan dynasty, the rest of us will be fighting for the spoils of any of the few pie errors that may be presented and KR seen to have actually targeted next season as their real breakout year and full credit to them.

I'm comfortable if we can maintain being one of the others with them, saints wire and probably Salford and Cats

Re: Hull Kingston Rovers : Wed Oct 16, 2024 8:29 pm  

LeythIg wrote:

It won't have anything to do with creative accounting. The live auditing of the cap will see to that.

The fact that we have no academy, and only had a reserve team established this year means we wont get as much value for our salary cap as other teams. There are dispensations on salary cap for club trained players, plus a lower cap value for club trained marquee players.

We've used around 30 players this year. And all of them have had to be recruited from other clubs. We're probably spending more money on players 21-30 than anyone else in SL, who will be bringing players through as fringe players. As a result we probably can't offer as much to players that we want to bring in to improve the 13 as KR were able to last year. Because they have their academy and reserves setup, they could focus on quality, not quantity like us.

All of the above shows how incredible a job that Chester and Lam have done this last three years.

If a team wanted to pay a player from a different company or from the owners back pocket, how would the salary cap audit pick it up?

It wouldn’t

Re: Hull Kingston Rovers : Thu Oct 17, 2024 9:35 am  

Code: Select all [code][quote][/quote][/code] RobRiches wrote: If a team wanted to pay a player from a different company or from the owners back pocket, how would the salary cap audit pick it up? It wouldn’t That would require a player to sign a contract for a salary less than what they hope to actually receive, and hope that a third party continues to top it up. The club would also be relying on the third party continues with payments.

Code: Select all [code][quote][/quote][/code] RobRiches wrote: If a team wanted to pay a player from a different company or from the owners back pocket, how would the salary cap audit pick it up? It wouldn’t That would require a player to sign a contract for a salary less than what they hope to actually receive, and hope that a third party continues to top it up. The club would also be relying on the third party continues with payments.

Re: Hull Kingston Rovers : Thu Oct 17, 2024 9:52 am  

As a Hull fan, I don't think KR are abusing the cap. If you look at their squad depth for next year, it was in the HDM a couple of days ago, they are very cap heavy in the first 17/18. After that, their depth is non existant and is down to kids with no SL experience at all. Further showing that their luck with injuries this year keeping their players on the pitch. May and Lewis both played 30 games in the halves for example

Re: Hull Kingston Rovers : Thu Oct 17, 2024 10:56 am  

Irregs#16 wrote:

As a Hull fan, I don't think KR are abusing the cap. If you look at their squad depth for next year, it was in the HDM a couple of days ago, they are very cap heavy in the first 17/18. After that, their depth is non existant and is down to kids with no SL experience at all. Further showing that their luck with injuries this year keeping their players on the pitch. May and Lewis both played 30 games in the halves for example

And I'm pretty sure that they won't be able to play that many games next year, with the limits being introduced, so any lack of depth will be more exposed.

The better the kids coming through are, the more depth you will have. Leigh were likely paying Ben McNamara more than Wigan were paying Tom Farrimond. Probably even paying Jack Nisbet as much as Zak Eckersley was on this year.

Re: Hull Kingston Rovers : Thu Oct 17, 2024 11:35 am  

I think the missing out on Martin wil be more down to his agent Ayoub who has a habit of messing clubs about with contracts trying to get more money, lachlan Lam, Blake Ferguson and Ricky Leutele are all examples of this and Derek Alluded to it on the Super League Raw podcast, it cost Leutele a new contract with the Leopards and I think we will probably see the back of Lachlan Lam at the end of 2025 unless he changes agent, it’s no coincidence he was poor the back 1/4 of the season.

Re: Hull Kingston Rovers : Mon Oct 21, 2024 4:23 pm  

Thanks to Binosh, who has filled in some gaps about the murky world of Rugby Agents - https://ultramanagement.com.au/players/ makes for some interesting reading. Sam Ayoub (Director) of Ultra Management has managed to stay out of trouble by the skin of his teeth on several occasions. Interesting players on the books of Ultra Management: Anthony Milford (Not coming to Leigh any time soon) Blake Ferguson (Retired) Jackson Hastings Joe Shorrocks Josh Drinkwater Ken Sio Kelepi Tanginoa (Hull KR as per the thread) Lachlan Lam (Let's sell to Hull FC) Matty Nicholson (Off to the NRL) Rhyse Martin (Hull KR as per the thread) Tom Amone Zak Hardaker Ricky Leutele

Thanks to Binosh, who has filled in some gaps about the murky world of Rugby Agents - https://ultramanagement.com.au/players/ makes for some interesting reading. Sam Ayoub (Director) of Ultra Management has managed to stay out of trouble by the skin of his teeth on several occasions. Interesting players on the books of Ultra Management: Anthony Milford (Not coming to Leigh any time soon) Blake Ferguson (Retired) Jackson Hastings Joe Shorrocks Josh Drinkwater Ken Sio Kelepi Tanginoa (Hull KR as per the thread) Lachlan Lam (Let's sell to Hull FC) Matty Nicholson (Off to the NRL) Rhyse Martin (Hull KR as per the thread) Tom Amone Zak Hardaker Ricky Leutele

Re: Hull Kingston Rovers : Mon Oct 21, 2024 6:59 pm  

Septimius Severus wrote: Thanks to Binosh, who has filled in some gaps about the murky world of Rugby Agents - https://ultramanagement.com.au/players/ makes for some interesting reading. Sam Ayoub (Director) of Ultra Management has managed to stay out of trouble by the skin of his teeth on several occasions. Interesting players on the books of Ultra Management: Anthony Milford (Not coming to Leigh any time soon) Blake Ferguson (Retired) Jackson Hastings Joe Shorrocks Josh Drinkwater Ken Sio Kelepi Tanginoa (Hull KR as per the thread) Lachlan Lam (Let's sell to Hull FC) Matty Nicholson (Off to the NRL) Rhyse Martin (Hull KR as per the thread) Tom Amone Zak Hardaker Ricky Leutele I believe there were issues Tom Amone and links to NRL as well. Trouble is, if you refuse to deal with a particular agent, you could cut your nose to spite your own face, if they represent a player who would be a good fit.

Septimius Severus wrote: Thanks to Binosh, who has filled in some gaps about the murky world of Rugby Agents - https://ultramanagement.com.au/players/ makes for some interesting reading. Sam Ayoub (Director) of Ultra Management has managed to stay out of trouble by the skin of his teeth on several occasions. Interesting players on the books of Ultra Management: Anthony Milford (Not coming to Leigh any time soon) Blake Ferguson (Retired) Jackson Hastings Joe Shorrocks Josh Drinkwater Ken Sio Kelepi Tanginoa (Hull KR as per the thread) Lachlan Lam (Let's sell to Hull FC) Matty Nicholson (Off to the NRL) Rhyse Martin (Hull KR as per the thread) Tom Amone Zak Hardaker Ricky Leutele I believe there were issues Tom Amone and links to NRL as well. Trouble is, if you refuse to deal with a particular agent, you could cut your nose to spite your own face, if they represent a player who would be a good fit.