: Mon Jun 15, 2009 4:05 pm  

FredParky wrote:

Its obviously not up to date

It's up to date enough to have Neil Jukes on it (that was more recent than Beevers wasn't it?)

: Mon Jun 15, 2009 5:15 pm  

But if the webmaster hasnt updated that bit,it doesn't do it by itself you know, he has to be told to do it, and maybe he hasn't, ask him.

: Wed Jun 17, 2009 1:01 pm  

Lets not kid ourselves. The fans did not vote against a trust - Lisa members did but not 100%.
Given that Lisa has little over 100 members, many of whom are rarely seen at meetings its a pity Trevor Barton gave up on the idea simply because Lisa members voted no. He should have taken it to the fans and town!
Lisa seems to go nowhere, no direction little drive and declining membership. Can someone say what the membership was 2 years ago and what it is now. We can then see how strong (or weak) LISA is. Can they also say what steps have recently been taken to attract new members and what succes there has been.
I am a LISA member by the way but rarely go - I normally have to wash my hair!. If there was a structured meeting I might take more interest as it is I cannot even be bothered cancelling my membership - so much appathy and so little interest.

: Wed Jun 17, 2009 3:41 pm  

Unfortunately the way it was put to LISA members was that they were asked to vote on whether LISA should BECOME a supporters trust (which IIRC was discussed as a possible kind of relaunch to aid a recruitment drive for new members), and the vote was no. However the aim of the group of fans who met to look into the workings of a trust was never to take over or compete with LISA (although some LISA members seemed to think it was), and indeed as a LISA member my own preference would have been for a trust to coexist alongside LISA, working with each other but not treading on each others toes, and I would happily have been a member of both. But that wasn't an option that was voted on, so hey ho.

A trust would take whatever direction its members vote for it, so if LISA had voted in favour they would have been the founding members of the trust and the direction of the trust would almost certainly have been steered by LISA. But that didn't happen and we all move on.

It's worth noting though that LISA's vote does not express anybody's opinions (not even LISA members like myself) about the future existance of a trust, it voted on it's own future, ie that IT did not want to BECOME a trust at that particular time.

In practice, however, a trust cannot exist without members, and fans are unlikely to get together to launch a new body without some sort of aim or goal they feel will be achieved. The framework of a trust is there to be used, and there are many fans like myself who think it offers a lot of positives in the way it is organised, so I am hopeful that a trust will still happen one day. However, it will need a goal to drive the initial recruitment of its members, and that will most likely be the next perceived crisis or the next major funding requirement that is not covered by LISA but is deemed to need action from a group of supporters. It could be something like achieving a voice to give fans a say in some aspect of the running of the club, it could be as a fans forum to offer a sounding board or gather fans opinions for the club about new ideas and schemes, it could be to identify possibilities for the gym facility they mentioned they are lacking at the last LISA meeting, it could be for anything. But that will be decided by vote, ie the feeling of its members when it is launched.

: Wed Jun 17, 2009 5:26 pm  

jpleigh wrote:

Lets not kid ourselves. The fans did not vote against a trust - Lisa members did but not 100%.
Given that Lisa has little over 100 members, many of whom are rarely seen at meetings its a pity Trevor Barton gave up on the idea simply because Lisa members voted no. He should have taken it to the fans and town!
Lisa seems to go nowhere, no direction little drive and declining membership. Can someone say what the membership was 2 years ago and what it is now. We can then see how strong (or weak) LISA is. Can they also say what steps have recently been taken to attract new members and what succes there has been.
I am a LISA member by the way but rarely go - I normally have to wash my hair!. If there was a structured meeting I might take more interest as it is I cannot even be bothered cancelling my membership - so much appathy and so little interest.

Trevor Barton wanted to lead the trust but have other people doing the work , he knew that without changing LISA to a trust it would have meant a lot of hard work to set up , he wasn't willing to do this


If he wanted to go to the fans he should have done so , nobody was stopping him and nobody is still stopping him

As you state , you are a LISA member but rarely attend which demonstrates the apathy you describe

And yes it is doubtful if the LISA organisation will ever grow to the numbers it once had , but it still contributes and will continue to do so until it no longer has any members

If anybody wants to set up a ' trust ' they are welcome to do so , if they can only do it by ' piggy backing ' on an existing organisation that would tell me there is not the interest for it to make any sort of difference anyway

Whenever there is a sign of weakness there are always people who will see an opportunity , it is like in the jungle , there are always Vultures and Hyena's looking out for a cheap meal

: Wed Jun 17, 2009 5:50 pm  

Starbug wrote:

[/b]

Trevor Barton wanted to lead the trust but have other people doing the work , he knew that without changing LISA to a trust it would have meant a lot of hard work to set up , he wasn't willing to do this


If he wanted to go to the fans he should have done so , nobody was stopping him and nobody is still stopping him

As you state , you are a LISA member but rarely attend which demonstrates the apathy you describe

And yes it is doubtful if the LISA organisation will ever grow to the numbers it once had , but it still contributes and will continue to do so until it no longer has any members

If anybody wants to set up a ' trust ' they are welcome to do so , if they can only do it by ' piggy backing ' on an existing organisation that would tell me there is not the interest for it to make any sort of difference anyway

Whenever there is a sign of weakness there are always people who will see an opportunity , it is like in the jungle , there are always Vultures and Hyena's looking out for a cheap meal

Starting the Trust was the biggest hurdle because I got the impression nobody knew how to do it. That very question I remember was asked at the initial meeting and that person was shouted down for being negative. His near to damn it words was "Its alright telling us all these great things that a Trust can do, but how do we go about starting it ?"

Still think the Trust was a good idea too, but not taking over a Independent supporters group.
I also thought Trevor Barton did do us proud in how he organised the guests etc and selling the concept to the fans.

: Wed Jun 17, 2009 6:02 pm  

Leeeigh Leeeigh wrote:

Starting the Trust was the biggest hurdle because I got the impression nobody knew how to do it. That very question I remember was asked at the initial meeting and that person was shouted down for being negative. His near to damn it words was "Its alright telling us all these great things that a Trust can do, but how do we go about starting it ?"

Still think the Trust was a good idea too, but not taking over a Independent supporters group.
I also thought Trevor Barton did do us proud in how he organised the guests etc and selling the concept to the fans.

But unless the ' concept ' involves either actually running the club like Bramley/Rochdale or in bringing in grant aid for a stadium development or community funding [ which our community ' trust ' already does ] what extra can a trust achieve ?

Getting people down to ' sell ' what a trust can achieve is not that difficult , Doncaster fans have managed to do it this week and are at present considering if they can set one up to run their club

But if all the things a trust does are already being done it seems a bit pointless having one

If things change in the near future then we might need one

Re: Supporters trust : Wed Jun 17, 2009 6:10 pm  

maurice wrote:

Discuss.

but only assuming the club goes pop first

Here we go again

My contribution to the discussion is that I am not prepared to start it up. I dont have the time or the resources and currently I am losing the will to live with all the carp I have just caught up on here (The forum in general and not necessarily the thread )

: Wed Jun 17, 2009 6:35 pm  

Starbug wrote:

But unless the ' concept ' involves either actually running the club like Bramley/Rochdale or in bringing in grant aid for a stadium development or community funding [ which our community ' trust ' already does ] what extra can a trust achieve ?

Getting people down to ' sell ' what a trust can achieve is not that difficult , Doncaster fans have managed to do it this week and are at present considering if they can set one up to run their club

But if all the things a trust does are already being done it seems a bit pointless having one

If things change in the near future then we might need one

Getting a bunch of fans together when in crisis is easy. I was referring to the guests that Trevor got together to explain to us what a Trust was etc.
The original idea for the Trust was a good idea at the time. Because what you say here about needing a Trust when on our knees was how we could have described it back then until AT with his super hero cape saved us

: Wed Jun 17, 2009 6:45 pm  

Leeeigh Leeeigh wrote:

Getting a bunch of fans together when in crisis is easy. I was referring to the guests that Trevor got together to explain to us what a Trust was etc.
The original idea for the Trust was a good idea at the time. Because what you say here about needing a Trust when on our knees was how we could have described it back then until AT with his super hero cape saved us

Yes the bloke from Swinton and the 2 footy guys , but none were relevant to us

We were not ' on our knees ' as you describe although if things continue as they are at the present rate we could be in the future

But the day we need a supporters trust to ' run ' Leigh Centurions will be the day we are truly bolloxed

So if anybody wants to set one up ' just in case ' away they go , it is not that hard

Finding anybody to actually help , support and ' put themselves out ' on the other hand is virtually impossible