: Wed May 06, 2009 8:22 am  

Starbug wrote:

In some respects the guy is right , if we are to survive on people just wanting to come to the ground 15 minutes before kick off and go home straight after then our future could be bleak

The whole ' ethos ' of new stadia is that they are ' working ' for you 7 days a week

Unfortunatley we are not in that position as the new stadium costs us more money 7 days a week than we were making in Hilton park

We have around 15 days a year to make enough money to run a semi professional RL team in the second tier of the sport

Unless we can get over 4,000 paying spectators into the ground on those 15 days we will always be in a position of requiring ' extra ' financial input

We cannot just rely on the 80 minutes of RL to bring that number of people in , as you cannot control what happens on the pitch , nobody can

We have to make the whole match day experience good enough that people are willing to come even if the product on the pitch doesn't always come up to people's expectations

This person sounds like he enjoyed the social part of the day as much as the game itself , I would guess there are a lot more like him

Lose them at our peril

That's all that 'I' and many more people want. In over fifty years of attending HP the match was the only important activity, for me,I did a little sponsering and that was fine and, that facilty is 'still' available at the LSV except, it is in much better surroundings

: Wed May 06, 2009 8:30 am  

Scarramanga wrote:

To be honest I don't think its a unique problem for LSV.

All modern day stadia are soulless-four boxes on each side-built to the same minimalist formula affairs - the only difference being the colour of the seat plastic.

Halton, HJ, LSV - all pretty much the same basic formula really.

As long as the game itself is improving and the product we are all there for is VFM (guffaw) I'm not bothered - LSV as a facility was always going to be function over form!

The big difference for us is that we dont own the ground,at the moment.

: Thu May 07, 2009 4:23 am  

The Watcher wrote:

The big difference for us is that we dont own the ground,at the moment.

Of course

And I think this point helps the sterile (debatable) feel.

: Thu May 07, 2009 11:37 am  

We didn't 'own' Hilton Park either, its not the owning its the running' of it that matters.

: Thu May 07, 2009 6:54 pm  

Starbug wrote:

That is my point we cant , so yes we have the use of a nice shiney new stadium , but it is of no benifit to us at all

In all honesty we would have been better off at Hilton Park trying to get grant funding to improve and develop

So Sorry Mr Jones and Mr Barton but to tell the truth you havent done us a favour , in fact unless things change you might just end up finishing us off

Who does actually own LSV stadium ? I thought Centurions was a part owner (Genesis too ??), Council......So surely as council tax payers and the Centurions having a stake then we have a say in how it runs.
If the club can't afford to use the stadium then why is this the case ? The club have to accept a responsibility for this too. Crowds aren't happening etc, and why is it ?
I remember Keith Freer (??) turning up for LISA meeting (when the Trust idea was presented) and stating he had just come back from signing a contract for the stadium. What was that contract about - as surely he wouldn't have signed it with "rent to be advised later" or something. Or did I not hear him correctly on this.
There has been moaning about it not feeling like home, with no Centurions signs and stuff hung around - then we find out club never asked as an example.
As for the stadium finishing us off (blame someone else syndrome) then again we have had our destiny in our own hands. The stadium was an opportunity....are we missing it? Or was all our eggs in "the getting into SL" basket
There was no great atmosphere at HP, most of the time.
Widnes/Warrington stadiums are similar to our "souless" one. So why have the atmosphere been so good in our trips there. Helps having away fans, but tbh as you say further back we need bigger gates to create that atmosphere to start with.
Blaming LSV for things like this won't solve our problems.
If it was possible to organise and pay for I would once and for all allow us all to see how much the town want the Centurions - by having a one off free entry to all (:wink:). Won't happen without someone footing the bill but would give us an idea of where we are at etc

ps This isn't having a pop at the club, as I don't do that. Its more criticism

: Thu May 07, 2009 9:15 pm  

Leeeigh Leeeigh wrote:

Who does actually own LSV stadium ? I thought Centurions was a part owner (Genesis too ??), Council......So surely as council tax payers and the Centurions having a stake then we have a say in how it runs.
If the club can't afford to use the stadium then why is this the case ? The club have to accept a responsibility for this too. Crowds aren't happening etc, and why is it ?
I remember Keith Freer (??) turning up for LISA meeting (when the Trust idea was presented) and stating he had just come back from signing a contract for the stadium. 1 What was that contract about - as surely he wouldn't have signed it with "rent to be advised later" or something. Or did I not hear him correctly on this.
There has been moaning about it not feeling like home, with no Centurions signs and stuff hung around - then we find out club never asked as an example.
As for the stadium finishing us off 2(blame someone else syndrome) then again we have had our destiny in our own hands. 3 The stadium was an opportunity....are we missing it? Or was all our eggs in "the getting into SL" basket
There was no great atmosphere at HP, most of the time.
Widnes/Warrington stadiums are similar to our "souless" one. So why have the atmosphere been so good in our trips there. 4 Helps having away fans, but tbh as you say further back we need bigger gates to create that atmosphere to start with.5Blaming LSV for things like this won't solve our problems. If it was possible to organise and pay for I would once and for all allow us all to see how much the town want the Centurions 6b] by having a one off free entry to all (:wink:). [/b]Won't happen without someone footing the bill but would give us an idea of where we are at etc

ps This isn't having a pop at the club, as I don't do that. Its more criticism

1 Yes , that is basically what happened

2 Not actually blaming them , just pointing out that it is not viable the way it is being run cost wise

3 Yes it is/was an opportunity [ my words posted many times in the last 2 years ] one that has/is being wasted

4 Correct many businesses give out samples of what they sell to entice people to buy

5 Also correct but see 4 above , if it is made too difficult to let people sample they wont bother , the whole site has been badly designed and planned [ no doubt some people have been very well paid for this ] from the start , I hate architects with a vengance , they are the biggest load of to**ers you can find

6 It wouldn't work , you know it I know it , far too simple to expect people to now just turn up , it might have worked for the first game , too late now

Unfortunatley it would seem that some people thought that " if we build it they will come " , that only happens in films

: Thu May 07, 2009 9:44 pm  

Starbug wrote:

1 Yes , that is basically what happened

2 Not actually blaming them , just pointing out that it is not viable the way it is being run cost wise

3 Yes it is/was an opportunity [ my words posted many times in the last 2 years ] one that has/is being wasted

4 Correct many businesses give out samples of what they sell to entice people to buy

5 Also correct but see 4 above , if it is made too difficult to let people sample they wont bother , the whole site has been badly designed and planned [ no doubt some people have been very well paid for this ] from the start , I hate architects with a vengance , they are the biggest load of to**ers you can find

6 It wouldn't work , you know it I know it , far too simple to expect people to now just turn up , it might have worked for the first game , too late now

Unfortunatley it would seem that some people thought that " if we build it they will come " , that only happens in films

1. Did we blindly sign a contract not knowing what cost was involved to play there ? also relevent to your point 2.
3. Who wasted this opportunity ? answering without just blaming LSV costs tho because we seem to have left ourselves open on that score.
4. Giving free samples out at whos cost tho ? We would need a sponser or something to do this really. Should the Leigh council tax payer have foot the bill for this ? This is where I am confused about who owns it.

: Thu May 07, 2009 9:50 pm  

Leeeigh Leeeigh wrote:

1. Did we blindly sign a contract not knowing what cost was involved to play there ? also relevent to your point 2.
3. Who wasted this opportunity ? answering without just blaming LSV costs tho because we seem to have left ourselves open on that score.
4. Giving free samples out at whos cost tho ? We would need a sponser or something to do this really. Should the Leigh council tax payer have foot the bill for this ? This is where I am confused about who owns it.

As Fred said , not who owns it , it's who runs it

Probably a committee , as we know , very few things run by committee are ever very successful

: Thu May 07, 2009 10:09 pm  

this whole 'who owns the stadium/village' is becoming another de ja vu thread on here. its well documented who owns it http://www.wigan.gov.uk/Services/Enviro ... illage.htm However that list has changed due to certain circumstances. The LSV stadium company runs it but because the project stalled at the last minute the council bailed it out, and there the problems began as it then had to turn into a 'cash cow' so that the rate payers of the borough get their money back, and the present LSV management was put in place. Pray suggest what alternative Leigh Centurions had? Grundy Hill were making 'selling noises' for the last few years. Free samples? no such animal, all these 'free entries' still need to be 'policed' and that costs money, now suggest who pays, don't mention sponsorship as in these hard financial times sponsorship budgets in business are down, my own for example to ZERO so I am forced to use my own which I have put aside for retirement to honour my this year sponsorship promises, of next year??? who knows but at this stage NIL and I think I will not be alone, that is the financial reality not only in a business like mine but in the 'blue chip' companies also (just take a look around your local high street if I'm not to be believed).. Leigh Centurions being a partner in the LSV of which I'm informed Leigh Genises no longer are, get a reduction in rental terms. but unfortunately the 'terms' are based on the other stadium in the borough, something that whilst unfair and unrealistic has been put into place, and talks go on at length but without any sort of conciliation as the LSV management appear to be unbendingI'm sure if you ask Mr Chairman who's own arguments with the LSV company are 'legendary' he will lessen your confusion. My own question to the powers that be was that we (the people of Leigh) were promised a debt free sports village, is that now still the case? Its all a 'merry-go-round' without the fun of the fair.

this whole 'who owns the stadium/village' is becoming another de ja vu thread on here. its well documented who owns it http://www.wigan.gov.uk/Services/Enviro ... illage.htm However that list has changed due to certain circumstances. The LSV stadium company runs it but because the project stalled at the last minute the council bailed it out, and there the problems began as it then had to turn into a 'cash cow' so that the rate payers of the borough get their money back, and the present LSV management was put in place. Pray suggest what alternative Leigh Centurions had? Grundy Hill were making 'selling noises' for the last few years. Free samples? no such animal, all these 'free entries' still need to be 'policed' and that costs money, now suggest who pays, don't mention sponsorship as in these hard financial times sponsorship budgets in business are down, my own for example to ZERO so I am forced to use my own which I have put aside for retirement to honour my this year sponsorship promises, of next year??? who knows but at this stage NIL and I think I will not be alone, that is the financial reality not only in a business like mine but in the 'blue chip' companies also (just take a look around your local high street if I'm not to be believed).. Leigh Centurions being a partner in the LSV of which I'm informed Leigh Genises no longer are, get a reduction in rental terms. but unfortunately the 'terms' are based on the other stadium in the borough, something that whilst unfair and unrealistic has been put into place, and talks go on at length but without any sort of conciliation as the LSV management appear to be unbendingI'm sure if you ask Mr Chairman who's own arguments with the LSV company are 'legendary' he will lessen your confusion. My own question to the powers that be was that we (the people of Leigh) were promised a debt free sports village, is that now still the case? Its all a 'merry-go-round' without the fun of the fair.

: Thu May 07, 2009 10:26 pm  

imleythbenter wrote: this whole 'who owns the stadium/village' is becoming another de ja vu thread on here. its well documented who owns it http://www.wigan.gov.uk/Services/Enviro ... illage.htm However that list has changed due to certain circumstances. The LSV stadium company runs it but because the project stalled at the last minute the council bailed it out, and there the problems began as it then had to turn into a 'cash cow' so that the rate payers of the borough get their money back, and the present LSV management was put in place. Pray suggest what alternative Leigh Centurions had? Grundy Hill were making 'selling noises' for the last few years. Free samples? no such animal, all these 'free entries' still need to be 'policed' and that costs money, now suggest who pays, don't mention sponsorship as in these hard financial times sponsorship budgets in business are down, my own for example to ZERO so I am forced to use my own which I have put aside for retirement to honour my this year sponsorship promises, of next year??? who knows but at this stage NIL and I think I will not be alone, that is the financial reality not only in a business like mine but in the 'blue chip' companies also (just take a look around your local high street if I'm not to be believed).. Leigh Centurions being a partner in the LSV of which I'm informed Leigh Genises no longer are, get a reduction in rental terms. but unfortunately the 'terms' are based on the other stadium in the borough, something that whilst unfair and unrealistic has been put into place, and talks go on at length but without any sort of conciliation as the LSV management appear to be unbendingI'm sure if you ask Mr Chairman who's own arguments with the LSV company are 'legendary' he will lessen your confusion. My own question to the powers that be was that we (the people of Leigh) were promised a debt free sports village, is that now still the case? Its all a 'merry-go-round' without the fun of the fair. Debt free , yes , from a having a mortgage on the place point of view But from a cost of running point of view no , surely there are architects that can design buildings that do not require 24 hour security The cost alone of having that on site must be close to 100 K per year , then add on 8/9 admin staff , 4/5 ground staff Basically if every bit of spare land was built on either rented or sold and every inch of office space leased out they might get close to paying half the ' running costs ' But they arent and they wont be , partly because of the financial situation but also because they were totally unrealistic targets They have seen massive sponsorship deals signed at football and RU grounds and seriously expected someone to stump up the same to put their name on the LSV Totally unrealistic

imleythbenter wrote: this whole 'who owns the stadium/village' is becoming another de ja vu thread on here. its well documented who owns it http://www.wigan.gov.uk/Services/Enviro ... illage.htm However that list has changed due to certain circumstances. The LSV stadium company runs it but because the project stalled at the last minute the council bailed it out, and there the problems began as it then had to turn into a 'cash cow' so that the rate payers of the borough get their money back, and the present LSV management was put in place. Pray suggest what alternative Leigh Centurions had? Grundy Hill were making 'selling noises' for the last few years. Free samples? no such animal, all these 'free entries' still need to be 'policed' and that costs money, now suggest who pays, don't mention sponsorship as in these hard financial times sponsorship budgets in business are down, my own for example to ZERO so I am forced to use my own which I have put aside for retirement to honour my this year sponsorship promises, of next year??? who knows but at this stage NIL and I think I will not be alone, that is the financial reality not only in a business like mine but in the 'blue chip' companies also (just take a look around your local high street if I'm not to be believed).. Leigh Centurions being a partner in the LSV of which I'm informed Leigh Genises no longer are, get a reduction in rental terms. but unfortunately the 'terms' are based on the other stadium in the borough, something that whilst unfair and unrealistic has been put into place, and talks go on at length but without any sort of conciliation as the LSV management appear to be unbendingI'm sure if you ask Mr Chairman who's own arguments with the LSV company are 'legendary' he will lessen your confusion. My own question to the powers that be was that we (the people of Leigh) were promised a debt free sports village, is that now still the case? Its all a 'merry-go-round' without the fun of the fair. Debt free , yes , from a having a mortgage on the place point of view But from a cost of running point of view no , surely there are architects that can design buildings that do not require 24 hour security The cost alone of having that on site must be close to 100 K per year , then add on 8/9 admin staff , 4/5 ground staff Basically if every bit of spare land was built on either rented or sold and every inch of office space leased out they might get close to paying half the ' running costs ' But they arent and they wont be , partly because of the financial situation but also because they were totally unrealistic targets They have seen massive sponsorship deals signed at football and RU grounds and seriously expected someone to stump up the same to put their name on the LSV Totally unrealistic