Re: 4,839 : Wed Aug 05, 2015 8:48 am  

I think with the players we have we are where we are. Whilst we have to fend off Wigan, Leeds, saints and to some extent wire by paying more than they would for the same player in order to get them to come to us -or keep players, we will always have an overall poorer squad. We have been lucky that we haven't had major injury issues or the gulf would be more obvious.
Remember how lethargic and frankly knackered our players looked under NB. How lacking in energy our play was- Remember the mid season slump every year due to them being flogged in training.....
Remember how we complained at how no one knew where they were playing each week, and how it showed, as "tinkerman" did his tinkering- Short memories.
Folk are moaning they don't play exciting free flowing rugby- well look what happens when they try and can't catch a ball between them! Perhaps they are playing to their strengths rather than their weaknesses...

Re: 4,839 : Wed Aug 05, 2015 10:04 am  

Jools, l agree with just about all of that, but l think the main problem at the Giants is that too many people are in "the comfort zone",
Starting near the top , we have a General Manager that is also a director,= job for life?
Rumours, said GM is very pally with some players = contract well past your sell by date.
Mason and Kopczak fiascos = someone didn,t do their job properly, well never mind eh!.
Luke (lve got a bad back)O,Donnell, paid in full, left early, never missed a game for the Roosters?
the same could probably be said regarding coaches, the NB issue was a farce, the axe should have swung the moment he first opened his mouth.
Baloo has already had his contract extended, personelly l,m ok with him at the moment, but if he doesn,t deliver, will the axe swing?, will he jump ship if a better offer comes along, or will the "comfort zone" kick in.
Marketing and Publicity, most fans favourite gripe, ie what marketing and Publicity, again "comfort zone".
Other directors, Who are they ? what do they bring to the club ? or are they a little club sitting in "the comfort zone"
l have watched this club most of my life, and if someone 20, or even 10 years ago had offered me what we have today, l would have happily axcepted, but we get greedy, there is no doubt we have problems to overcome, whether they be players, coaches, backroom staff, management, or above those, the buck stops with Ken Davy.
Ken Davy is a saint, without him we would no doubt be a championship side or worse, Ken Davy is obviously a very good bussiness man, in the financial sector, but a RL club, is a totally different world, l would be more confident, lf l new Ken had an axe, and new how to chop up a "comfort zone", maybe he should just buy one and hang it above his office door.

Re: 4,839 : Wed Aug 05, 2015 10:35 am  

Jools, spot on regarding playing style, i've had this debate with people many times and even on this thread,when people say that we don't play exciting stuff, my argument is that maybe we play the way we do because that style suits our strengths, and it's hard for the opposition to defend against, or maybe we play that way in order to negate the opposition in order to put our strengths to the fore.

you can't just expect every RL team to play the same way and just throw the ball around at will, yes it might be exciting but does it win games?

as for the comfort zone thing and sacking people, then i don't get that, as a club we are in a good place,as far as most of us know we are OK financially and the club is run in a fairly good way, we are in a good position in the league with a chance of a shot at the grand final in 7 weeks!
yes the marketing probably leaves a lot to be desired, but then again, we aren't a rich club, so maybe the budget for marketing was spent on players instead in the hope that a successful team will market itself?
at last night's HGSA meeting,Blake Solly, complimented us on being a well run club who have bred a very good "culture" from the top down, which in turn has led us to being where we are, do we want to throw that away for a quick fix and sack people left,right and centre?

Re: 4,839 : Wed Aug 05, 2015 11:19 am  

Meast, no one is advocating sackings left right and Centre, l am asking questions, things have gone wrong in the past, Questions are being asked about the running of the club today. The NB, Mason, and Kopczak sissues, l my opinion were very badly handled, Brown should have been sacked (Saints fans at that time said McManus would not have stood for that)and as far as the "comfort zone" l think l outlined my views on that quite clearly, but if everyone thinks all is honky dory down there, who am l to argue.

Re: 4,839 : Wed Aug 05, 2015 11:20 am  

meast wrote:

Jools, spot on regarding playing style, i've had this debate with people many times and even on this thread,when people say that we don't play exciting stuff, my argument is that maybe we play the way we do because that style suits our strengths, and it's hard for the opposition to defend against, or maybe we play that way in order to negate the opposition in order to put our strengths to the fore.

you can't just expect every RL team to play the same way and just throw the ball around at will, yes it might be exciting but does it win games?

as for the comfort zone thing and sacking people, then i don't get that, as a club we are in a good place,as far as most of us know we are OK financially and the club is run in a fairly good way, we are in a good position in the league with a chance of a shot at the grand final in 7 weeks!
yes the marketing probably leaves a lot to be desired, but then again, we aren't a rich club, so maybe the budget for marketing was spent on players instead in the hope that a successful team will market itself?
at last night's HGSA meeting,Blake Solly, complimented us on being a well run club who have bred a very good "culture" from the top down, which in turn has led us to being where we are, do we want to throw that away for a quick fix and sack people left,right and centre?

We are a well run club and shouldn't forget that.

Lots of effort and money has gone into the scholarships and academies that should start to bear some fruit in the next year or so.
If you look at the club now as to just 5 year ago we have made giant strides (no pun intended) in this area.

You mentioned earlier that the year we won the LLS the average attendance was the lowest since 2007 and that 'maybe people don't want success after all'.

Well I believe they are desperate for success but that the definition of success is getting to the GF as a minimum.

Can you imagine the interest that would be generated if the Giants appeared in (never mind won) the showcase final in front of 75,000 people?

If we can do that and more importantly do it on a regular basis that must be our best chance of growing attendance figures.

What we don't want is a repeat of the miserable effort in the play-offs of last year (and the year before that?).

That more than anything will put us further back in the quest to raise crowds.

The pressure is on and it will be very interesting how we handle it from now to the season's end.

It all a starts tomorrow......

Re: 4,839 : Wed Aug 05, 2015 7:02 pm  

Some good posts and something to agree with in every one. I must be expecting too much I think. But I would ask one question of people who say they are very happy with where we are.

Would you rather see a game like the Leeds v Saints cup match, where Leeds especially, played some great football to watch, Fast, flowing at times, off loading, desperate defence at times, Or the effort served up by Wakey and the Giants, Endless dropped balls, knock-on's, Penalties and the rest, Both Leeds and the Giants got the win, Leeds playing for a place at Wembley against another very good side, The Giants against bottom of the league , who have won Twice , I know which I would rather watch.

Re: 4,839 : Wed Aug 05, 2015 7:46 pm  

some very good points on all aspects, which is how a forum thread should be.
however i do have to disagree slightly TBC, we have appeared in showcase events, 2 challenge cup finals, and we all said then that it would raise the profile of the club above what it's ever been, added to the fact that we had a long running partnership with the university, which i don't think we profited from enough, how many graduates left the uni as giants fans? suppose we'll never know but i don't think we did enough to get students and employees of the uni interested, maybe others will shed light.

it's all very well dismissing the LLS as not very important, but to our club and everything it's been through it was, in my eyes, a massive thing and something we should be proud of, as a club and as a fanbase, did we push that enough? again, hard to tell but from the outside looking in i don't think we did.

obviously our continuing failure in the play offs aren't helping, and maybe, just maybe, a GF will be the kick start the cup finals, and the LLS weren't

Re: 4,839 : Wed Aug 05, 2015 7:52 pm  

Leeds are on a different level when it comes to attracting players though, they have far more funds to attract top quality players at all levels, we don't, we are building up to having a top class academy for the future,
i see your point but like i said previously we play to our strengths, and if those strengths are not offloading and throwing the ball around then fine, i support Huddersfield, as much as i enjoy watching good games as a neutral, i am happy to support my team, regardless of how they play.

of course, we all want to see us play like leeds and win things in front of 15,000 people every week, but we aren't Leeds, and we really can't compare the 2 clubs .

Re: 4,839 : Thu Aug 06, 2015 10:05 am  

meast wrote:

some very good points on all aspects, which is how a forum thread should be.
however i do have to disagree slightly TBC, we have appeared in showcase events, 2 challenge cup finals, and we all said then that it would raise the profile of the club above what it's ever been, added to the fact that we had a long running partnership with the university, which i don't think we profited from enough, how many graduates left the uni as giants fans? suppose we'll never know but i don't think we did enough to get students and employees of the uni interested, maybe others will shed light.

it's all very well dismissing the LLS as not very important, but to our club and everything it's been through it was, in my eyes, a massive thing and something we should be proud of, as a club and as a fanbase, did we push that enough? again, hard to tell but from the outside looking in i don't think we did.

obviously our continuing failure in the play offs aren't helping, and maybe, just maybe, a GF will be the kick start the cup finals, and the LLS weren't

I agree that the LLS was something to be proud of (especially for those who remember cold wet days at Runcorn, Blackpool etc.) and don't dismiss it lightly.

But in the context of this thread I don't believe a couple of Challenge Cup final appearances and a LLS in 8-9 years is going to significantly influence our attendances.

We've come a long way in the last 15 years through the hard work of many people and that shouldn't be underestimated.

I believe Ken Davy has shifted his investment from marketing (cut price season tickets etc.) to where if should be concentrated and that's in the scholarship / academy and the purpose built facilities behind the textile centre on leeds road.

He's a business man and I think he realises he will get a better return on his investment doing this than pumping more money into marketing campaigns that are never guaranteed to be successful.

What we need now more than anything is to see lads coming through who can be genuine Super League players (the omens are good so far) and to get to the GF.

We've got solid foundations in place and now need that push to the next level.

The signings for next season may take us to another level but the last thing we need right now is a limp end to the season.

At the very least we need to keep our club moving forward and to make sure we retain the core 5,000 - 6,000 fans we currently have.

Re: 4,839 : Thu Aug 06, 2015 10:17 am  

Excellent posts.