Re: Super 8s or franchise : Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:31 pm  

northernbloke wrote:

Let's pose the question, if it's Widnes that come down would it be looked at deffently? They were apparently the big success of franchise, this year they finished bottom.

Widnes were a success of the Franchise system.
With P&R it's a weak team replacing a weak team......neither Widnes, Catalan or HKR will be anywhere other than the Qualifiers again next year, so all you've done is tweak the up/down/up scenario we had before licensing.

As for your definition of the NRL as boring and not the model to follow, we've had over a hundred years to try P&R and the only reason the Franchise experiment failed was that there were loose regulations that weren't even followed loosely....Wales was a massive error on the Part of the RFL, as was not letting IL keep his stake in London, but parochial northerners running their game have no concept of what expansion is other than sticking posts in the ground and expecting fans to flock to games. The NRL competes with AFL for Hearts and Minds in 'stralia and does pretty well at it. Football is growing down there, but it's a summer sport so no real threat, but the NRL are constantly "on point" in developing and promoting the game.....compare that to the activity of Red Hall which is more than often a rear guard action.

Licencing, but run independently of the RFL with clearly defined targets and goals.

Re: Super 8s or franchise : Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:37 pm  

NRL product us now pretty dull to watch.
I hope our game does not go that way, franchise will push it that way tho

Re: Super 8s or franchise : Sat Sep 23, 2017 12:09 am  

Call Me God wrote:

Widnes were a success of the Franchise system.
With P&R it's a weak team replacing a weak team......neither Widnes, Catalan or HKR will be anywhere other than the Qualifiers again next year, so all you've done is tweak the up/down/up scenario we had before licensing.

As for your definition of the NRL as boring and not the model to follow, we've had over a hundred years to try P&R and the only reason the Franchise experiment failed was that there were loose regulations that weren't even followed loosely....Wales was a massive error on the Part of the RFL, as was not letting IL keep his stake in London, but parochial northerners running their game have no concept of what expansion is other than sticking posts in the ground and expecting fans to flock to games. The NRL competes with AFL for Hearts and Minds in 'stralia and does pretty well at it. Football is growing down there, but it's a summer sport so no real threat, but the NRL are constantly "on point" in developing and promoting the game.....compare that to the activity of Red Hall which is more than often a rear guard action.

Licencing, but run independently of the RFL with clearly defined targets and goals.

Didn't think they actually met the criteria at the time.You had a few clubs that didn't meet it either.

Re: Super 8s or franchise : Sat Sep 23, 2017 7:01 am  

Seems a lot of you London fans - not all mind - are hoping that a return to licensing will be your salvation and route back to SL with guarented hand outs and being somewhat 'Oliveresque' in asking 'can i have some more please' I admit the RL did you no favours in its decision to abandon most of the development officers in your area, but the public of your part of the world don't seem to want the game either, all i keep hearing is there is so much potential having a team in London and we need a team in the Capital, but the club has been in existance for 35 years in one form or another and that potential is nowhere near reality, it would have been a calamity had your team been promoted, with the best will in the world they could not have been the face of SL in the capital playing out of the Trailfinders, and woild they have attracted or rekindled a better audience I doubt it, dont get me wrong I am full of admiation for you diehards of the Bronco's but like was said earlier in this thread " parochial northerners running their game have no concept of what expansion is other than sticking posts in the ground and expecting fans to flock to games" i would suggest that getting some fans to flock to the games in London would be a good starting point to see if the potential is worthy of investment (again) sadly at this moment in time it isn't.

Re: Super 8s or franchise : Sat Sep 23, 2017 12:40 pm  

Harry s
I am not suggesting that at all, at the moment we don't deserve to be in the top flight. As for the number of fans, you are right, we don't have a decent support base, even in SL we struggled to get decent crowds. Getting fans to flock to watch batley is not even easy in batley.
So no franchise is not our savour unless we get a big investor and a move again, at the moment we are playing at the level we should. Who's fault is that? "dog" would put all the blame on our current owner. For me it's a mix of limited investment, players not performing, fans deserting the club, it's not one single thing. Participation in the area is actually not too bad, you might be surprised how many play down here.
But back on it, personally I think the 8s system has proved its worth this year, what would need to change to make it a real competition is to allow champ clubs to spend the same as SL if they can afford it, then when they play in the qualifiers it's with an equality.
Widnes! If they lose today then lose the million pound game does that blow the franchise theory out the water?
As for salary cap, do we really think Toronto are playing within the cap?

Re: Super 8s or franchise : Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:45 am  

northernbloke wrote:

Harry s
I am not suggesting that at all, at the moment we don't deserve to be in the top flight. As for the number of fans, you are right, we don't have a decent support base, even in SL we struggled to get decent crowds. Getting fans to flock to watch batley is not even easy in batley.
So no franchise is not our savour unless we get a big investor and a move again, at the moment we are playing at the level we should. Who's fault is that? "dog" would put all the blame on our current owner. For me it's a mix of limited investment, players not performing, fans deserting the club, it's not one single thing. Participation in the area is actually not too bad, you might be surprised how many play down here.
But back on it, personally I think the 8s system has proved its worth this year, what would need to change to make it a real competition is to allow champ clubs to spend the same as SL if they can afford it, then when they play in the qualifiers it's with an equality.
Widnes! If they lose today then lose the million pound game does that blow the franchise theory out the water?
As for salary cap, do we really think Toronto are playing within the cap?

Hi NB,
I can see that there are many facets which added together are the reason that your club is not gaining ground at the pace some would like, but as an outsider looking in forgive me if it sounds callous but it seems that it has been the same for a number of years and does not seem to moving forward, on the pitch totally agree you are at the level you should be, but 2 or 3 good forwards could change that around.
On the 8's and the monies they are allowed to spend, corrections welcome, but didn't Beaumont at Leigh in early '16 challenge the RFL with the same question that for Championship clubs to compete on an even footing with the SL clubs they should have parity on what they could spend, then the concession was granted and he invested in the playing roster, so to go on from that are Toronto playing within the cap? Was the concession extended to Championship 1, don't know, but it wont matter next season!

Re: Super 8s or franchise : Sun Sep 24, 2017 9:38 am  

We do not have the financial investment to buy our way back into SL which the current system essentially demands. I doubt straight P&R would deliver it either. Liscencing provides an avenue though how it is managed and implemented is another matter. In the current structure once you've bought your way in the money from TV is enough to keep some of the basics going. As unpalatable as it is without our money man we don't exist in any scenario. Whether having a guaranteed place in SL would result in more 'investers' is not a given. They weren't queueing up previously. We could limp on as the majority seem to in the Championship and below, or perhaps the inevitable merger.

But then again after more than 100 years most heartland teams have little else to show for the demand and their prowess in their local areas so the target benchmark is pretty low.

Re: Super 8s or franchise : Sun Sep 24, 2017 12:21 pm  

I don't agree that "we don't exist in any scenario" without David. That's why the next LBSA meeting on October 5th (Tube Strike willing!) is the most important one in its 4 season existence. The question is are we strong enough and willing to become a Supporters Trust? Are we willing to do what it takes, when its required, to ensure the long term stability of the Club? Only our members (and we're nearly 300 strong) have the answer to that. But if supporter ownership is good enough for AFC Wimbledon its good enough for us!

Re: Super 8s or franchise : Sun Sep 24, 2017 4:59 pm  

Nkom I like your enthusiasm and if that's the way it goes I hope you can make it work, I don't think a supporters association would be able to raise the cash needed to get us to top flight again though. As for merger that SR suggests! Who with?
SR is right though about the majority of rugby league teams that have been around a long time, my home town York being a classic. Apart from the obvious of who we play at the moment it still shocks me that we don't get more in to see the product, it's not trying to get the folk new to the sport I am talking about, it's the RL ex pat community that lives south of the Watford gap I mean.

Re: Super 8s or franchise : Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:36 pm  

Harry Stottle wrote:

i would suggest that getting some fans to flock to the games in London would be a good starting point to see if the potential is worthy of investment (again) sadly at this moment in time it isn't.

Jeez.....if only someone had told us that 30 years ago we'd be top of SL by now

There have been a few occasions where we have got fans to flock to games over the years.....they all coincided with some form or proactive campaign (15 quid in and 6 free VB's delivered, 6,500+...free coaches for Wigan (8k) Castleford (8k).....but the reality is we could probably survive on an average of 6k, which we were 66% of the way to a decade ago before our current ownership model took over.

NB is correct that I lay a lot of the blame squarely at the feet of the owner and whilst many people other than myself attempted to explain the benefits of marketing to attract income, he steadfastly refused to accept that he could make a mistake in anything he did and whilst he fiddled, Rome burned to the ground around him.....but we've been over that a thousand times already.

As for Licencing being the saviour of a London SL club, it would be, but only with a different ownership model....I've spoken with the owner and ex-part-owner of the NZ Warriors and they see the potential in London, but not until Licensing is back.