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Re: It's that time of year AGAIN Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:29 pm  

User avatarRfE wrote:
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jaybs wrote:
we and other clubs are not here to feed Top Super League Clubs!


But that's exactly what we do - and have been doing for a decade or so.
From LMS and Tony Clubb right up to Rob Butler.
Sad really. I had hoped our academy would produce Londoners and Southern players who could play in Super League - they do, but not for us.
Rise like Lions after slumber
In unvanquishable number--
Shake your chains to earth like dew
Which in sleep had fallen on you--
Ye are many -- they are few.'

Percy Bysshe Shelley - 'The Mask of Anarchy'



Marvin Gaye - 'Wherever I lay my hat, that's my home' - a motto for London Broncos surely.
Re: It's that time of year AGAIN Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:31 pm  

Deadcowboys1 wrote:
Deadcowboys1 Cheeky half-back
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Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2010 6:10 pm
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RfE wrote:
But that's exactly what we do - and have been doing for a decade or so.
From LMS and Tony Clubb right up to Rob Butler.
Sad really. I had hoped our academy would produce Londoners and Southern players who could play in Super League - they do, but not for us.


That I think is in part because every year seems to be surrounded with uncertainty, especially since we were relegated from SL in 2014. We therefore don't very often offer contracts of more than 2 years meaning we will struggle to hold onto them if not in SL. Not unreasonable to have a compensation scheme for Academy trained players that move on under the age of 21 or 23 whatever unless they are released by their clubs. It works in football, not perfect but does generate funds for lesser teams.
Re: It's that time of year AGAIN Wed Apr 21, 2021 8:27 pm  

User avatarorangeman wrote:
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Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2021 10:06 pm
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jaybs wrote:
Look at Widnes now, to think how they were such a major club, now struggling to even win?


Let's Look at Widnes as a VERY GOOD example of the experiences of clubs over the SL period.
2002-2005. 6,200 average gate (Division average 8,800) WLD = 39/71/3. Relegated from 11th because of the French Arrival
2006-2007 BOOM or BUST = BUST still with 4,800 average gates still higher than the division average at the time
2007-2011 Rebuild with an investor, building an academy and reconnecting with the community and 3,200 averages, still above average
2012-2014 3 Seasons free of the threat of relegation saw last, 10th and then a play-off finish (39/59/3) and a rising on year an base of 6,500 average (10k SL ave).
2015-2018......once again looking over their shoulders at the drop, Widnes returned to type and eventually lost their fans, their owner and their SL status but maintained a 5.5k average gate over this period until they dropped down.

My point is that the period where the Widnes team & club grew in stature and support numbers was the period where they didn't have to look over their shoulders. The return of the drop saw the risk for the owner too great and the spend required to continue the build but also ensure survival was too much.

Put it this way. Let's say Featherstone Rovers beat the odds and get promoted this year and replace say, Wakefield. Do you see anything other than Fev going straight back down on the back of 20+ hammerings and Wakefield drifting into Oblivion in 2022?

Do you see anything other than the 4 survivors this year from HKR/SALFORD/HUDDERSFIELD/WAKEFIELD/LEIGH competing with the newly promoted side with the sole aim of keeping their noses in the trough only to repeat the struggle in 2023?

SL is boring at the top, because it's the same bloody teams every year and now, we have a chasm that has cut away the 5 at the foot of the table....
Re: It's that time of year AGAIN Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:46 pm  

User avatarjbuzza wrote:
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orangeman wrote:
Do you see anything other than the 4 survivors this year from HKR/SALFORD/HUDDERSFIELD/WAKEFIELD/LEIGH competing with the newly promoted side with the sole aim of keeping their noses in the trough only to repeat the struggle in 2023?

SL is boring at the top, because it's the same bloody teams every year and now, we have a chasm that has cut away the 5 at the foot of the table....


The solution to this could be to reduce the size of SL and have a better promotion & relegation contest.
Re: It's that time of year AGAIN Thu Apr 22, 2021 7:03 am  

Deadcowboys1 wrote:
Deadcowboys1 Cheeky half-back
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Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2010 6:10 pm
Posts: 519
jbuzza wrote:
The solution to this could be to reduce the size of SL and have a better promotion & relegation contest.


Doubt a 6 or 8 team Super League would be attractive to any broadcaster. Would be like when the Scottish FA came up with their system where Celtic played Rangers & co 4 times a season. :shock:

Might be better to enlarge to 15. Spread the payments out more & get rid of loop fixtures & magic weekend. If there then is room for a Magic Weekend, make it a festival of 7s or 9s for the 3 leagues.

Perhaps the big question is why is there such a large disparity between 12 teams where a salary cap has been in force for so many years & everyone seems to claim to be spending to the cap?
Re: It's that time of year AGAIN Thu Apr 22, 2021 9:30 am  

User avatarjaybs wrote:
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orangeman wrote:
Let's Look at Widnes as a VERY GOOD example

SL is boring at the top, because it's the same bloody teams every year and now, we have a chasm that has cut away the 5 at the foot of the table....


Interesting with Widnes in their real glory days, they were run by a committee, then the businessman in recent years came in, pumped money into the club, and they went backwards? and I think they are back to being committee only.

Look at Ken Davey Huddersfield Giants, it was his wife who was interested in RL, not him, he then owned the football club, which he has now relinquished all interests in, since taking over the rugby league club, how much has he put in, but little success, and he sold one of his companies in 2001 for £75 Million!

I am also getting to the stage that some Super League games are just boring, friends are so looking forward to tonight with Saints at home to Huddersfield, but it does not interest me at all, we can tell what will happen now without looking in the crystal ball, which is boring, as well as putting up with the 2 clowns co-commentating!
Re: It's that time of year AGAIN Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:27 pm  

wantawin wrote:
wantawin Strong-running second rower
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Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:28 am
Posts: 277
jaybs wrote:
How many transfer fees have we received to feed Super League clubs along the M62 corridor over the years? We can all list a team of players we have developed, that would make a fine Super League team, I have said over and over again, Any Club who develops young players, should receive a reasonable fee, we and other clubs are not here to feed Top Super League Clubs!

This will never happen all of the time you have the SL club owners making the rules, they will not want to spend money on buying good academy players.
Re: It's that time of year AGAIN Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:57 pm  

User avatarjaybs wrote:
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wantawin wrote:
This will never happen all of the time you have the SL club owners making the rules, they will not want to spend money on buying good academy players.


Yes! But it should & must happen, in my BARLA days we had to fight to get the £50 which had been agreed by all Parties.
Re: It's that time of year AGAIN Thu Apr 22, 2021 10:21 pm  

User avatarorangeman wrote:
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Stevo's Armpit

Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2021 10:06 pm
Posts: 94
Deadcowboys1 wrote:
That I think is in part because every year seems to be surrounded with uncertainty.

Not really.....the only thing we're uncertain of is if THIS IS THE YEAR that Hughes walks. We're like Wire but without the forlorn hope :D
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Mon 14th Jun
NRL RND: 14 Canterbury28-6St.George
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National Rugby League 2021 ROUND : 14
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Melbourne 14 472 178 294 24
Penrith 14 418 133 285 24
Parramatta 14 400 224 176 22
Souths 13 341 282 59 20
Sydney 13 379 223 156 18
Manly 13 315 282 33 14
 
St.George 14 299 312 -13 12
NQL Cowboys 13 264 383 -119 12
Cronulla 13 244 298 -54 10
Gold Coast 14 318 380 -62 10
Canberra 13 257 321 -64 10
NZ Warriors 13 281 347 -66 10
Wests 14 292 374 -82 10
Newcastle 14 231 366 -135 10
Brisbane 14 232 436 -204 6
Canterbury 13 162 366 -204 4
This is an inplay table and positions can change as matches are in play.
Betfred Super League XXVI ROUND : 9
 PLDFADIFFPTSDIFFWP%
Catalans 9 268 142 126 16 188.73 88.89
St.Helens 8 206 70 136 14 294.29 87.50
Wigan 8 158 136 22 14 116.18 87.50
Warrington 9 302 157 145 13 192.36 72.22
Hull FC 9 179 143 36 11 125.17 61.11
Hull KR 9 223 204 19 10 109.31 55.56
 
Castleford 9 185 232 -47 8 79.74 44.44
Leeds 8 150 136 14 6 110.29 37.50
Huddersfield 8 150 162 -12 6 92.59 37.50
Wakefield 9 163 231 -68 4 70.56 22.22
Salford 9 106 289 -183 2 36.68 11.11
Leigh 9 134 322 -188 0 41.61 0
This is an inplay table and positions can change as matches are in play.
Betfred Championship 2021 ROUND : 9
 PLDFADIFFPTSDIFFWP%
Toulouse 7 347 70 277 14 495.71 100
Featherstone 8 306 76 230 16 402.63 100
Bradford 9 228 216 12 14 105.56 77.78
Batley 8 228 160 68 12 142.50 75
LondonB 9 226 216 10 11 104.63 61.11
Halifax 9 271 135 136 10 200.74 55.56
 
York 9 219 180 39 8 121.67 44.44
Sheffield 9 211 249 -38 8 84.74 44.44
Widnes 9 226 263 -37 7 85.93 38.89
Dewsbury 8 115 227 -112 6 50.66 37.50
Newcastle 8 168 246 -78 5 68.29 31.25
Whitehaven 9 160 278 -118 5 57.55 27.78
Oldham 9 134 330 -196 4 40.61 22.22
Swinton 9 152 345 -193 0 44.06 0
This is an inplay table and positions can change as matches are in play.
Betfred League One 2021 ROUND : 5
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Barrow 5 211 62 149 10 340.32 100
Workington 5 180 94 86 8 191.49 80
Doncaster 5 182 126 56 8 144.44 80
Coventry 4 106 114 -8 4 92.98 50
Keighley 5 158 135 23 4 117.04 40
Rochdale 5 157 156 1 4 100.64 40
 
Crusaders 5 122 150 -28 4 81.33 40
Hunslet 5 84 137 -53 4 61.31 40
LondonS 4 104 150 -46 2 69.33 25
West Wales 5 70 250 -180 0 28 0
This is an inplay table and positions can change as matches are in play.
Betfred Womens Super League 2021 ROUND : 5
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St.HelensW 3 230 6 224 6 3,833.33 100
LeedsW 3 214 22 192 6 972.73 100
WiganW 3 158 18 140 6 877.78 100
CastlefordW 3 104 24 80 6 433.33 100
YorkW 3 76 102 -26 2 74.51 33.33
Wire W 4 86 154 -68 2 55.84 25
 
FeatherstoneW 4 74 164 -90 2 45.12 25
BradfordW 4 60 180 -120 2 33.33 25
Hudds W 4 46 222 -176 2 20.72 25
WakefieldW 3 16 172 -156 0 9.30 0
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