Re: Brian McDermott : Sun Jul 12, 2009 10:26 pm  

Dave Lister wrote:

Very naive attitude tbh. So basicailly coaches can never do anything wrong. Nice.

Where have I ever said that?

So you are suggesting you can have an informed opinion and advise someone who has infinitely more knowledge and experience on a subject, who spends far more time and has a far greater need to get things right on issues that you know next to nothing about? Obviously coaches make mistakes, but to suggest 'advising' them is a good idea or that a fan knows best is just absolutely ridiculous. Even if the two parties were equally qualified, it stands to reason that the coach would generally be right, as he spends his entire professional life making decisions as opposed to a couple of seconds. Obviously there can be poor coaches, but this is in comparison to other coaches. The worst coach ever to coach in Super League would still know infinitely more about the game than a fan, so what could be gained from advising them? It would be like trying to teach a top mathematician how to solve equations, it just wouldn't make any sense.

Re: Brian McDermott : Sun Jul 12, 2009 10:30 pm  

Wes Hooligan wrote:

Where have I ever said that?

So you are suggesting you can have an informed opinion and advise someone who has infinitely more knowledge and experience on a subject, who spends far more time and has a far greater need to get things right on issues that you know next to nothing about? Obviously coaches make mistakes, but to suggest 'advising' them is a good idea or that a fan knows best is just absolutely ridiculous. Even if the two parties were equally qualified, it stands to reason that the coach would generally be right, as he spends his entire professional life making decisions as opposed to a couple of seconds. Obviously there can be poor coaches, but this is in comparison to other coaches. The worst coach ever to coach in Super League would still know infinitely more about the game than a fan, so what could be gained from advising them? It would be like trying to teach a top mathematician how to solve equations, it just wouldn't make any sense.

There you go, disproved your own point, only the coach can be correct because he has more knowledge and experience, we might as well all give up now

So going by your (flawed) logic, a coach cannot make a wrong decision and we as supporters cannot form an opinion that differs to a coaches because we are not experienced enough? Imagine if McDermott had the choice between 2 players - he prefers one, yet a poster on here prefers the other. Is it not possible for the poster on here to be right then, as McDermott is completely superior?

: Sun Jul 12, 2009 10:32 pm  

If you actually saw us on a week-by-week basis, i'd be interested to see if you agreed that McDermott was spot on in everything he does. Obviously its easy for you to spout such rubbish because your team is playing very well and only a madman would question Brown's abilitiy - we are in a very different boat.

Re: Brian McDermott : Sun Jul 12, 2009 10:39 pm  

Wes Hooligan wrote:

You would not have any idea about any of the things he was talking about. You know absolutely jack all about the game in comparison to a coach, and that's not meant as an insult. Plus you cannot see what goes on behind closed doors or how McDermott actually is with his players. All you can base your opinions on are his post-match comments, which are a completely inaccurate guide.

Brian McDermott was talking, on the record, about the performance of his players on the field on Saturday, and not only criticised them but also was quoted as saying, ". . . I do not know what the answer is."

Do you really feel he currently inspires both his players and the fans?

Why can't we aspire to help Brian become at least become a tad more inspirational in public, even if you're right that he's already truly inspirational behind the scenes?

Were he to participate on this forum, at least he'd know what the fans were thinking, and vice versa.

I'm struggling to see the harm in this.

Re: Brian McDermott : Sun Jul 12, 2009 11:09 pm  

Dave Lister wrote:

There you go, disproved your own point, only the coach can be correct because he has more knowledge and experience, we might as well all give up now

So going by your (flawed) logic, a coach cannot make a wrong decision and we as supporters cannot form an opinion that differs to a coaches because we are not experienced enough? Imagine if McDermott had the choice between 2 players - he prefers one, yet a poster on here prefers the other. Is it not possible for the poster on here to be right then, as McDermott is completely superior?

I think you have got the wrong end of the stick, I'm not suggesting coaches are always right at all. Just that it would be silly to 'advise' them, as the OP was suggesting, both on a tactical level for obvious reasons and on a man-management level because there is no way of actually knowing how a coach operates. A choice between players is just down to personal opinion - obviously a coaches opinion will be more informed, as they spend a lot more time watching the player and know a lot more about what they want that player to be doing. That doesn't mean they always make the right choice though, I often disagree with team selections. I also agree that some of McDermott's comments to the media are a bit strange to say the least, but I would think public perception is one of the lowest priorities for a coach, because ultimately it is of no consequence.

All I was trying to get at is that there is a hell of a lot more to being a coach than selecting a team, telling the lads to play well and then talking to the media after the game, and I think a lot of fans do not appreciate this.

Re: Brian McDermott : Sun Jul 12, 2009 11:18 pm  

Wes Hooligan wrote:

Regardless of whether you like the coach or not, it makes no sense to 'advise' him since his actions will have so much more justification than anything a fan could ever put to him. Which stands to reason, considering it's his job and he has been involved in that environment for years, whereas a fan may spend a few seconds forming an opinion and has not been involved ever. Plus, as I mentioned previously, the OP has absolutely no way of ever knowing what McDermott is actually like as a coach or as a person other than through brief snippets that are often made just because there is a requirement to do so, so to try and advise him one way or the other would just be meaningless.

Obviously fans can comment on signings - everyone can have their opinion on a player or an issue, even if it is not always accurate. I'm not saying people shouldn't comment, it just winds me up when fans think they know more than coaches.

Hi Wes,

I think you may have completely misunderstood the point I was trying to make earlier, namely that, for a Coach continually to criticise his players in public and yet seldom have the good grace to acknowledge that he may have some role in the outcome on the field, is hardly ideal.

Also, I really wonder if you think Brian McDermott is currently brilliant at interfacing with fans?

I don't doubt he could be, if he wished, but I'm not seeing any signs of engagement with fans at the moment.

This might be fine if we had 20,000 or more fans filling the stadium weekly, but currently we don't.

So why wouldn’t Brian seek to engage more with the fans, given that this has approach has demonstrably made a difference at other clubs?

If I were a Coach, and wanted to help grow the fan base (aka customer base), I'd at least devote a wee bit of time to listening to and interacting with fans.

This is just my opinion, and maybe it's OK for Brian McDermott to upset lots of people – certainly the fans, if not the players too.

Or am I just being too critical?

Re: Brian McDermott : Mon Jul 13, 2009 12:46 am  

RugbyLeague56 wrote:

Hi Wes,

I think you may have completely misunderstood the point I was trying to make earlier, namely that, for a Coach continually to criticise his players in public and yet seldom have the good grace to acknowledge that he may have some role in the outcome on the field, is hardly ideal.

Also, I really wonder if you think Brian McDermott is currently brilliant at interfacing with fans?

I don't doubt he could be, if he wished, but I'm not seeing any signs of engagement with fans at the moment.

This might be fine if we had 20,000 or more fans filling the stadium weekly, but currently we don't.

So why wouldn’t Brian seek to engage more with the fans, given that this has approach has demonstrably made a difference at other clubs?

If I were a Coach, and wanted to help grow the fan base (aka customer base), I'd at least devote a wee bit of time to listening to and interacting with fans.

This is just my opinion, and maybe it's OK for Brian McDermott to upset lots of people – certainly the fans, if not the players too.

Or am I just being too critical?

If he's a miserable old sod then you're not being too critical. Maybe there is a need for the fans to be made to feel closer to a coach. Maybe he should be more mindful with supporters. But that's down to the personality of the coach. If he doesn't want to, why should he? Compare a coach like Ricky Stuart to a Jason Taylor with regards to their approachability.

It really is not in the coach's brief to help grow a fan base. If that happens as a result of his results, then great, but it's not his brief.

Now I've been in a coach's box for the last five years and have seen how a game runs form that side of the fence. It changed my perspective on the game entirely. There have been so many times I've seen teams not doing what they've been told to do on the pitch. Even after message after message being sent out. As they say there's nothing you can do once they've crossed the white line.

I have to say that I feel sorry for them a lot of the time. Ultimately if a team doesn't perform, it's not the players that'll get the boot mid-season. It'll be the coach.



Why wasn't this thread posting a few weeks ago? Why now we've lost a couple. Didn't you feel like this when we were winning?

: Mon Jul 13, 2009 6:57 am  

There are 2 things to bear in mind here:
firstly, Brian has the complete confidence of the players which is vital, and secondly he pays no regard for the niceties of PR and calls a situation as he sees it. I have learnt the hard way over the years not to approach Brian after a game, and definitely not to ask him for an interview - even after a win!

Most of the team on saturday were out there playing busted, and now we face losing Chad Randall to a medial ligament injury, and Tony Clubb to a hand injury. Until we get fit bodies back, we will continue to struggle.

: Mon Jul 13, 2009 7:03 am  

So why wouldn’t Brian seek to engage more with the fans, given that this has approach has demonstrably made a difference at other clubs?

He does, he turned up at the forum meeting and was happy to answer any questions asked of him and he was quite happy to interact with fans. There has to be a cut off point, he is there to coach. Have you tried chatting to him after a game, I haven't, because I don't feel the need to but I am sure if you were to engage in conversation he would stand and chat, what more should we expect.

: Mon Jul 13, 2009 7:31 am  

I think the fella is doing a good job with the tools he has available to him

Sometimes you have to say it how it is
We gave away 3 really soft tries on sat, we dropped too much ball, and we were poor in defence, especialy coming off the defensive line when the ball is played, look at the speed hudds were coming up.
The bloke runing the team can only do so much and apart from deciding when to make the interchanges can have little control what the blokes do on the field.
So sometimes, honesty rather than making excuses for em is the best approach.

As for interacting with fans
what do you want a phone call to each fan to explain his decisions?
or do you want him to pop round yr house
He turns up at fans forums and answers questions there! how many other coaches do this? how many other sports do this?

Its the players that lost us the game sat, not Brian