Re: Coach Rea: "it gives it a really good London feel." : Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:47 am  

Wigan and Warrington have a situation whereby they can cherry-pick quality youngsters from a good catchment are. These young guys will probably be living at home with their parents in the immediate vicinity. They can get them onto to a directly complementary course like Sports or Physiotherapy or another training course like a day release scheme or a few A-Levels part-time at an Adult Education College. The club is funding them with a relatively low payment, and supporting their education and paying them under £10,000. This will be based very close to the club's training ground and thus can train in a similar way to the fully professional players, thus they will develop to their full potential physically, versus guys who might only train two or three times a week.

When they start to develop, the chances are that they will join a nearby partnership club such as Swinton and thus play against grown men, which will take their development on at a higher rate of progress than just playing against other youths. They will also look to loan them out to a middling Super League club with an injury crisis or generally weaker squad such as St Helens or Bradford. The more cunning deals give the lender the opportunity to pull back the player at relatively short notice. Season long deals may occur when the player is third or fourth choice for one position and is insistent about first team football. But generally the deal suits the lender.

This gives these clubs far more depth to their pool, because they have a first team squad, their own academy which can progress more players more quickly as other players go out on loan, arguably a feeder club and achieve the seasoning process through other clubs, versus suddenly throwing in a player who are part-time and with only age-specific experience against grown men, some of which are internationals.

The difference between training a couple of times a week and daily can be seen.

If you look at players we have had, like Dave Williams, he was two metres tall, but he only played about 15 times in a few seasons for us and arguably did not build the strength and bulk that could have made him a man mountain. He could have been 19 stone and another 50 games at a better level than the Academy would have done him the world of good. I am sure that a nearby Championship club and a PE style course to help bulk him up would have been ideal for his progress, but none was available.

Whilst Dan Sarginson does not look noticeably bigger than when he first came through despite being an A-Level student two years ago and training full time. You could argue that he is joining Wigan not to play first team football, but to have the opportunity to build himself up for two or three years, and then break into the team. If he does this he will probably be an international. If he does not he will probably be like others we have had. If you look at the likes of Worrincy, Caro, Sharp etc they are now Championship players because they left too soon but did not develop through simply playing first team football because arguably all had suspect tackling technique. The thing is for our youngsters over the years, there have been a fair few guys who have left at the first sight of a more lucrative contract, and who have been reasonably well regarded at the club. But when you are overpaid relative to your ability, you'll go at the end of your contract.

It is the old story, the more milk you produce, the more cream you produce and if you are patient you can see more than you will if you rush in and fail.

Cheers
Rammo

Re: Coach Rea: "it gives it a really good London feel." : Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:53 am  

markrammond wrote:

Wigan and Warrington have a situation whereby they can cherry-pick quality youngsters from a good catchment are. These young guys will probably be living at home with their parents in the immediate vicinity. They can get them onto to a directly complementary course like Sports or Physiotherapy or another training course like a day release scheme or a few A-Levels part-time at an Adult Education College. The club is funding them with a relatively low payment, and supporting their education and paying them under £10,000. This will be based very close to the club's training ground and thus can train in a similar way to the fully professional players, thus they will develop to their full potential physically, versus guys who might only train two or three times a week.

When they start to develop, the chances are that they will join a nearby partnership club such as Swinton and thus play against grown men, which will take their development on at a higher rate of progress than just playing against other youths. They will also look to loan them out to a middling Super League club with an injury crisis or generally weaker squad such as St Helens or Bradford. The more cunning deals give the lender the opportunity to pull back the player at relatively short notice. Season long deals may occur when the player is third or fourth choice for one position and is insistent about first team football. But generally the deal suits the lender.

This gives these clubs far more depth to their pool, because they have a first team squad, their own academy which can progress more players more quickly as other players go out on loan, arguably a feeder club and achieve the seasoning process through other clubs, versus suddenly throwing in a player who are part-time and with only age-specific experience against grown men, some of which are internationals.

The difference between training a couple of times a week and daily can be seen.

If you look at players we have had, like Dave Williams, he was two metres tall, but he only played about 15 times in a few seasons for us and arguably did not build the strength and bulk that could have made him a man mountain. He could have been 19 stone and another 50 games at a better level than the Academy would have done him the world of good. I am sure that a nearby Championship club and a PE style course to help bulk him up would have been ideal for his progress, but none was available.

Whilst Dan Sarginson does not look noticeably bigger than when he first came through despite being an A-Level student two years ago and training full time. You could argue that he is joining Wigan not to play first team football, but to have the opportunity to build himself up for two or three years, and then break into the team. If he does this he will probably be an international. If he does not he will probably be like others we have had. If you look at the likes of Worrincy, Caro, Sharp etc they are now Championship players because they left too soon but did not develop through simply playing first team football because arguably all had suspect tackling technique. The thing is for our youngsters over the years, there have been a fair few guys who have left at the first sight of a more lucrative contract, and who have been reasonably well regarded at the club. But when you are overpaid relative to your ability, you'll go at the end of your contract.

It is the old story, the more milk you produce, the more cream you produce and if you are patient you can see more than you will if you rush in and fail.

Cheers
Rammo

If we are serious about SL, we will have to learn how to bend the rules, that's how the big teams do it. Well said Rammo!

Re: Coach Rea: "it gives it a really good London feel." : Tue Jun 25, 2013 12:59 pm  

The infrastructure under Super League in the South is building in our favour with the four Championship one clubs

One of the best things that could happen for London Broncos is to see one or both of London Skolars or Hemel enter the Championship because we could then lend out our players to a higher standard than Academy, whilst Championship one is probably similar.

Oxford could also be potentially useful, although is beginning to get to the maximum frontier of reasonableness which would allow a player to train with both us and them, given the distance.

I don't see Gloucester as being a reasonable option for dual contracts given the expense and distance unless they are happy for a player to train just once a week with them and go straight into the team on a matchday.

We need to make use of this in future and in fairness we are starting to do this.

Re: Coach Rea: "it gives it a really good London feel." : Tue Jun 25, 2013 5:46 pm  

It's a shame that the abysmal marketing and dwindling crowds are increasingly likely to kill off the Broncos as a Super League entity, as the club is for the first time actually trying to make some effort to give plenty of local kids a chance to shine at the top level for an extended period of time. This season was always a bridge too far to make any considerable progress given the amount of deadwood Rae has to live with, but you must consider the opposition on Sunday: plenty of experience throughout, but only one local youth product in the 17. I think if London signed the right players rather than Aussies looking for a holiday there might be some progress to be made.

Re: Coach Rea: "it gives it a really good London feel." : Tue Jun 25, 2013 6:36 pm  

JonB95 wrote:

It's a shame that the abysmal marketing and dwindling crowds are increasingly likely to kill off the Broncos as a Super League entity, as the club is for the first time actually trying to make some effort to give plenty of local kids a chance to shine at the top level for an extended period of time. This season was always a bridge too far to make any considerable progress given the amount of deadwood Rae has to live with, but you must consider the opposition on Sunday: plenty of experience throughout, but only one local youth product in the 17. I think if London signed the right players rather than Aussies looking for a holiday there might be some progress to be made.

1) Marketing will not work unless you have a decent team for people to watch.

2) But the right players wont come South because of the cost of living?

Re: Coach Rea: "it gives it a really good London feel." : Tue Jun 25, 2013 6:46 pm  

Crowds are dwindling because the team are so poor and they offer nothing to bring crowds in. WHo wants to continually watch their laziness week in week out, they are boring with no idea and no passion. Gus can't take all the blame how can you sell tickets to watch such continual drivel

Re: Coach Rea: "it gives it a really good London feel." : Tue Jun 25, 2013 8:02 pm  

stayinlondon wrote:

Crowds are dwindling because the team are so poor and they offer nothing to bring crowds in. WHo wants to continually watch their laziness week in week out, they are boring with no idea and no passion. Gus can't take all the blame how can you sell tickets to watch such continual drivel

Agree entirely. I've been watching playing and sometimes coaching RL since 1966 and I've never seen a more useless set of players. I have never slagged off an individual player online until this year. I always thought every payer went out to win until I saw this shower. I am sick of lazy Aussies coming over for a paid holiday.

Re: Coach Rea: "it gives it a really good London feel." : Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:02 pm  

Snoopy wrote:

1) Marketing will not work unless you have a decent team for people to watch.

Marketing 101.

Understand what it is you sell.
Understand who it is you want to sell it to.
Understand what this audience finds frustrating or desires.
Deliver.

I appreciate that 23 wins from 99 games, with only 14 of them at home since the start of the 2010 season, don't help, but we have had crap teams in the past and managed to get crowds up.
We were poop in 2004 dropping 3% on the previous year, yet even when it looked like we were folding in 2005 we managed to up the gates by 13%.

Gus (and to be fair to him, Blanchard/Hogg) has failed to:

Understand what it is he is selling (curry don't count!).
Understand who it is he wants to sell it to.
Understand what this imaginary audience finds frustrating or desires.
Deliver.

Re: Coach Rea: "it gives it a really good London feel." : Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:22 pm  

The elite Wigan youth players are paid around 4800 a year on apprentice contracts through something called the AASE qualification, which basically allows a relatively full time training schedule, whilst earning and also getting a sports related qualification. The basis for this being a) Wigan don't have to pay them as its funded by the course provider b) it's a carrot prior to a full contract for them but also l
Players who may not be quite at that level. For any 16 y old that money in essentially full time education is a draw but also allows for physical and tactical development. Perhaps Broncos need to get onto this as other SL clubs and even the midlands academy offer this.

Re: Coach Rea: "it gives it a really good London feel." : Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:38 pm  

Llynfi Valley Crusader wrote:

The elite Wigan youth players are paid around 4800 a year on apprentice contracts through something called the AASE qualification, which basically allows a relatively full time training schedule, whilst earning and also getting a sports related qualification. The basis for this being a) Wigan don't have to pay them as its funded by the course provider b) it's a carrot prior to a full contract for them but also l
Players who may not be quite at that level. For any 16 y old that money in essentially full time education is a draw but also allows for physical and tactical development. Perhaps Broncos need to get onto this as other SL clubs and even the midlands academy offer this.

You could argue London has much greater potential for finding young players under schemes like this than any other location. We have a huge potential talent pool compared to other clubs and no shortage of educational establishments.