Re: Pricing for 2014. : Thu Dec 19, 2013 10:04 pm  

gutterfax wrote:

Of the £4,400,000 needed to run the club in 2012, only £543,000 (12.5%) was generated by the club. The figure was 13% in 2011, 13.5% in 2010, 16.5% in 2009 and 20% in 2008.

Oh dear not good figures at all.Its like the gambler blinked,shiit himself and then folded,what a shame.

Re: Pricing for 2014. : Thu Dec 19, 2013 10:15 pm  

j.c wrote:

Oh dear not good figures at all.Its like the gambler blinked,shiit himself and then folded,what a shame.

It amazes me that les than 12% of the spend on the team was spent trying to market them over the last 5 years and they wonder why nobody bothered turning up.

£1,400,000 on Marketing and Marketing Salaries is £280,000 a year. In that period, they managed to lose 1,000 fans off the average..

Re: Pricing for 2014. : Thu Dec 19, 2013 10:25 pm  

Sounds like we are close to agreement in some regards and you have shown that the biggest draw by far is success.

gutterfax wrote:

TK will not see any benefit of future in having a championship club with 800 fans in 2015 and London Broncos will move on again.

I have avoided passing any comment on Broncos as I don't feel it is my place to do so but please forgive me this one occasion.

Were will Broncos go to if they are relegated?
Would the story be different at the Stoop?

I had already looked at Broncos finances and they are clearly unsustainable without someone prepared to throw away money or the club dramatically cutting costs. My first thought when I saw them as a Barnet fan was please god don't buy them unless it's debt free and you can cut 2 mil off the costs. As we have agreed TK is not the investor to keep an unsustainable business afloat but more someone who will look to make it viable.

If Broncos did get relegated and the current owners decided to sell debt free then I could easily see TK taking on Broncos and it being more likely that Broncos will stay put, it would be his chance to take ownership and build from the ground up. I have seen a few posts claiming he is only seeing this as a short term money making venture but tbh that's not his style (historically). In many regards it would be the same as his investment in London Bees.

If however Broncos do well straight away and start getting sellout crowds then the current owners will be less inclined to sell and they will probably start looking to move to a bigger ground quicker than the Hive can develop to accommodate them. I guess the real unknown is how long your investor will continue to foot the bill and whether or not there is someone else willing to take on that burden should they stop.

Re: Pricing for 2014. : Thu Dec 19, 2013 10:57 pm  

meliferra wrote:

Sounds like we are close to agreement in some regards and you have shown that the biggest draw by far is success.

I have avoided passing any comment on Broncos as I don't feel it is my place to do so but please forgive me this one occasion.

Were will Broncos go to if they are relegated?
Would the story be different at the Stoop?

I had already looked at Broncos finances and they are clearly unsustainable without someone prepared to throw away money or the club dramatically cutting costs. My first thought when I saw them as a Barnet fan was please god don't buy them unless it's debt free and you can cut 2 mil off the costs. As we have agreed TK is not the investor to keep an unsustainable business afloat but more someone who will look to make it viable.

If Broncos did get relegated and the current owners decided to sell debt free then I could easily see TK taking on Broncos and it being more likely that Broncos will stay put, it would be his chance to take ownership and build from the ground up. I have seen a few posts claiming he is only seeing this as a short term money making venture but tbh that's not his style (historically). In many regards it would be the same as his investment in London Bees.

If however Broncos do well straight away and start getting sellout crowds then the current owners will be less inclined to sell and they will probably start looking to move to a bigger ground quicker than the Hive can develop to accommodate them. I guess the real unknown is how long your investor will continue to foot the bill and whether or not there is someone else willing to take on that burden should they stop.

Fair enough.
A SL club needs 4 million a year to function at mid table level. Without that level of income, then the club would be certain to drop out of SL into the 2nd tier, where the income needed massively drops down to a million. Problem is that as a SL club, we don't generate enough funds to sustain a championship club so if/when they drop down, then that will be that! RL, like many other sports, relies quite heavily on benefactors. With the exception of Leeds, Warrington and Wigan...possibly Hull FC, clubs haemorrhage cash and as you've said TK isn't a fan of that business model. As for where would the Broncos go? Probably move in with the Skolars and eventually merge with them.

Re: Pricing for 2014. : Thu Dec 19, 2013 10:57 pm  

That could be a good call, it find it difficult to believe we can put out a team that will not be relegated unless of course the RFL have decided to drop P & R for another year.

Re: Pricing for 2014. : Thu Dec 19, 2013 11:04 pm  

daftdad wrote:

That could be a good call, it find it difficult to believe we can put out a team that will not be relegated unless of course the RFL have decided to drop P & R for another year.

who is going to pay for the 2015 squad if it's P&R that year?
who is going to sign for us on a 1 year deal this year?
if P&R is to be postponed then would the RFL wait 'til mid January to announce it?

I suspect we are on life support to hour the Magic weekend fixture list and in the hope that we help make one of two choices at the end of the year a forgone conclusion

Re: Pricing for 2014. : Thu Dec 19, 2013 11:12 pm  

Meli raises and interesting point regarding TK taking over and and your suggestion of a merger with skolars in which case you answer your own questions, LB die

Re: Pricing for 2014. : Thu Dec 19, 2013 11:30 pm  

doomed!! we are doomed I say!

Re: Pricing for 2014. : Fri Dec 20, 2013 12:01 am  

meliferra wrote: If Broncos did get relegated and the current owners decided to sell debt free then I could easily see TK taking on Broncos and it being more likely that Broncos will stay put, it would be his chance to take ownership and build from the ground up. I have seen a few posts claiming he is only seeing this as a short term money making venture but tbh that's not his style (historically). In many regards it would be the same as his investment in London Bees. Intriguing stuff. I echo Dave Lister's thanks for the useful and interesting information we're getting from you. On an immediate practical point, which of the two sideline stands is the closest to the Pitch, west or east? The plan shows the west walkway but it's not clear if there's one in front of the east stand as well. http://www.barnetfc.com/club/stadium/

meliferra wrote: If Broncos did get relegated and the current owners decided to sell debt free then I could easily see TK taking on Broncos and it being more likely that Broncos will stay put, it would be his chance to take ownership and build from the ground up. I have seen a few posts claiming he is only seeing this as a short term money making venture but tbh that's not his style (historically). In many regards it would be the same as his investment in London Bees. Intriguing stuff. I echo Dave Lister's thanks for the useful and interesting information we're getting from you. On an immediate practical point, which of the two sideline stands is the closest to the Pitch, west or east? The plan shows the west walkway but it's not clear if there's one in front of the east stand as well. http://www.barnetfc.com/club/stadium/

Re: Pricing for 2014. : Fri Dec 20, 2013 12:42 am  

mickyb1234 wrote:

doomed!! we are doomed I say!

1. No club with an average under 10,000 in SL is self sufficient. They ALL make losses.
2. TK we are reliably informed does not invest.....he expects his teams to pay their own way
3. The Hive is currently a 5,200 capacity stadium.
4. See points 1 & 3 then re-read point 2.

Feel free to use a calculator if necessary!