Re: Former players : Fri Apr 04, 2014 10:07 pm  

jbuzza wrote:

They seem to have a better idea of the basics when they play at junior level.

Are you saying our player development has not been a positive ? Can you name an area of the club that has been more successful over recent years ?

No, you are simply putting words in my mouth and saying I'm saying our junior dev has not been a positive, when I'm not.

If they have a better idea of the basics when they play at junior level, what more do they need to learn? Kids here know the basics before they play rep footy U16s.

Re: Former players : Fri Apr 04, 2014 10:15 pm  

nadera78 wrote:

Londoners are always going to develop at a different rate to northerners simply because RL is so new to people down here, our kids just don't have the "RL immersion" that a kid in Wigan or Leeds enjoys. Up there the game is discussed all the time, parents have played or at least watched the game themselves, all of that impacts upon the game awareness of young players

Yep, agree. I see it here. It's in the blood more of NSW and QLD people than other states. So I totally get where you're coming from.

But, the RL dev people at London over the years have done a great job in spreading it around the schools of the South. If our kids are playing mini or mods from 5 years old, then there should be no difference to the North or Oz really. We have great people spreading the word and many volunteers coaching their hearts out. Maybe the RL itself should look at coaching qualifications and teach more as opposed to simply spreading the game? We're about 20 years on from SL starting and we have produced a handful of players who went on and played first grade. Mostly for London, but a few of us Suvverners, have now moved to the northern clubs. Which is positive.

nadera78 wrote:

I'd also suggest that some coaches find it easier to work with older players than youngsters who may be more unpredictable and in need of different things. One of the criticisms I held of Tony Rea in his previous spell was his treatment of younger players. Darrell Griffin has had a good career in SL, James Brooks likewise in union, Iain Morrison would have been a very good squad player for us, even Joe Mbu was treated poorly, and there were others too, but none of them lasted long at London. I always got the feeling Rea found it difficult to work with them and didn't have the patience needed. I think we're seeing the same right now with Mike Bishay who was dumped to the Skolars a week after winning MofM. Drinkwater has been dire and Farrar is never a stand off, but both of them seem locked into the team.

Yeah, the coach is the one that has to make the hard calls about who they and only they deem is good enough to have a chance of playing. Not sure about the working with kids comment as Tony Rea was a school teacher when he played footy here. You will unfortunately always see a youngster being told they're not required to then go somewhere else and then kick on. A good example of that is James Maloney at the Roosters. He played one season in Jersey Flegg (U20s) for the bottom club, the North Sydney Bears in 2006 as no-one wanted him! He then was called up into reserve grade. Other clubs saw him and wanted him after that. He won a premiership and played Origin last year. So it makes you think about all the coaches that didn't want him before.

Re: Former players : Fri Apr 04, 2014 10:17 pm  

Our "success" in bringing through young players is often held up as an example of how things should be done. But I've no idea whether we've done a good job of it or not. Maybe we should have developed two or three times more youngsters than we have. Or maybe less, who knows?

But one thing is agreed by almost everybody who watches our games and then posts on here, and that's that none of our youth players comes into the first team squad showing good enough defensive capabilities. I can't think of one who has done.

Re: Former players : Fri Apr 04, 2014 10:23 pm  

BroncOnIon wrote:

Our "success" in bringing through young players is often held up as an example of how things should be done. But I've no idea whether we've done a good job of it or not. Maybe we should have developed two or three times more youngsters than we have. Or maybe less, who knows?

But one thing is agreed by almost everybody who watches our games and then posts on here, and that's that none of our youth players comes into the first team squad showing good enough defensive capabilities. I can't think of one who has done.

Yeah, we have developed a culture in the south now thanks to the hard work of people that has meant we have been able to produce players that have moved on to first grade. How does one quantify the success? By the numbers of these kids? Or the numbers playing the game anyway. I like to think the latter as it produces the former.

I'm not having a go at the people who brought these people through, but is this defensive capabilities part of the "knowing the basics" I've heard about?

Re: Former players : Sat Apr 05, 2014 12:28 am  

For the majority of them it doesn't seem to be tackling technique that's lacking, more the understanding of what's going on around them and being able to read the play in front of them. I think that's down to experience because the season down here is so short that a kid can easily play less than a dozen games in the summer, compared to a Wiganer playing three times as many games. Over a ten year development process that's a hell of a lot more experience for one player over another.

Re: Former players : Sat Apr 05, 2014 2:22 am  

nadera78 wrote:

For the majority of them it doesn't seem to be tackling technique that's lacking, more the understanding of what's going on around them and being able to read the play in front of them. I think that's down to experience because the season down here is so short that a kid can easily play less than a dozen games in the summer, compared to a Wiganer playing three times as many games. Over a ten year development process that's a hell of a lot more experience for one player over another.

This is where it gets muddled. Different people who watch the same games, saying different things. BroncoOnion says defensive capabilities are a factor, you suggest that it isn't for the majority. Tackling technique is an important part of what Bronconion says is defensive capability, but not the only part.

Re: Former players : Sat Apr 05, 2014 9:53 am  

There are some people, JOC for one, who have serious technical deficiencies.

But Dan Sarginson, for example, knows how to tackle someone and can physically do it. But he often makes bad choices in terms of his positioning or which runner to go with. To me, that's down to not playing enough games and being exposed to those situations often enough when he was younger. And also not playing at a high enough standard in those developmental years. 12 games each summer is simply not enough. So then the coaching staff later on are always playing catch up - made worse if those coaches are busy dealing with a dysfunctional team in a dysfunctional club.

I'm certain that at Wigan he'll be afforded the help he needs to develop into a very good player.

Re: Former players : Sat Apr 05, 2014 11:04 am  

nadera78 wrote:

There are some people, JOC for one, who have serious technical deficiencies.

But Dan Sarginson, for example, knows how to tackle someone and can physically do it. But he often makes bad choices in terms of his positioning or which runner to go with. To me, that's down to not playing enough games and being exposed to those situations often enough when he was younger. And also not playing at a high enough standard in those developmental years. 12 games each summer is simply not enough. So then the coaching staff later on are always playing catch up - made worse if those coaches are busy dealing with a dysfunctional team in a dysfunctional club.

I'm certain that at Wigan he'll be afforded the help he needs to develop into a very good player.

Got it. Thanks.

Re: Former players : Sun Apr 06, 2014 7:01 pm  

Kaufusi does not seem to have improved since leaving. Retains the ball handling skills and enthusiasm of someone unconscious.

Re: Former players : Sun Apr 06, 2014 7:10 pm  

Euclid wrote:

Kaufusi does not seem to have improved since leaving. Retains the ball handling skills and enthusiasm of someone unconscious.

I thought he did pretty well today, but not for long. Don't know how long he was on the pitch but he only showed up for about 15 mins.