Re: Manager : Tue Apr 26, 2022 4:51 pm  

markrammond wrote:

If you looked at Jermaine Coleman's club level record, he has managed to obtain just a single win over the past two years against English semi-professional opposition.

His sole win against English semi-professional opposition was against Coventry Bears about a year ago and apart from that he has seen only wins against perennial losers West Wales since around this time in 2020.

He did have a good run in the Spring of 2020, with about five or six wins out of seven and also picked up a string of wins back in 2017, when the division split off and he was facing the weaker teams.

However any scrutiny of his record would show that there is probably about two to three fallow years to the ones where there are a fair number of wins.

Where do we go from here?

If you do a statistical analysis of the Championship, the third from bottom team has tended to only need 5 wins to stay up, as the bottom two tend to get little or nothing.

Two wins against Workington, two wins against Dewsbury, two wins against Sheffield, two wins against Newcastle and a win against Whitehaven are all still possible, and I would fancy us to stay up with clean sweeps against Worky and the Rams.

Widnes have fallen away, and that one might not be impossible, whilst Bradford aren't impossibly strong.

However reinforcements are obviously needed.

There are no quality contracted halfbacks at the club although I appreciate some may rate Horsman. I personally do not rate him, the Leylands, Moceidreke, or Ramsey at half back.

There is no quality in the centres or wingers other than Ulberg.

For me, we need to bring in 3 to 5 first team standard backs and half backs if we are to threaten the opposition tryline.

But the question is, is that on?

I think the club would need to bring in several players on relatively decent money, with some job security, perhaps an 18 month minimum contract, if we are to go forwards.

We have already plundered Skolars, and I would assume there is nothing left there; in fact I would have argued there was nothing in the first place that you could not get from the amateur scene.

The question is, will this be sanctioned?

In theory the club could go out and say bring in quite a few players; Dixon would be available; Boafo I believe would return for the same salary; there's also the possibility of Hindmarsh and Walters playing again for the right money. I'm not sure what happened with Kameron Pearce-Paul but he is good enough as is Mason Caton-Brown. There's also got to be good players not in the team at a fair number of clubs.

If we lose to Dewsbury, that would put us 5 points behind both them and Whitehaven. If we lose also to Newcastle, we would then face five games away on the trot. That would take us into the last ten games with next to no points. Whilst 7 games of the last 10 are at home, there are still the likes of Featherstone, Leigh and Halifax to visit. We are running out of track.

But I do suspect Hughes has no interest in putting in anything other than the cheapest possible manager and players and thus we will have to make do and mend.

I think my solution would be to get the players who just miss on the matchday squad, from someone like Huddersfield, and pay a fee and put them straight in to the side, as they have got to be better than what we have.

They could come down on the Saturday for the Captain's run and play the Sunday, that's all we'd need.

That doesn’t answer the question of who leads the club on the playing front

Re: Manager : Tue Apr 26, 2022 7:16 pm  

Another one gone yet Coleman stays!! https://widnesvikings.co.uk/club-statem ... -finnigan/

Another one gone yet Coleman stays!! https://widnesvikings.co.uk/club-statem ... -finnigan/

Re: Manager : Tue Apr 26, 2022 9:10 pm  

markrammond wrote:

I think my solution would be to get the players who just miss on the matchday squad, from someone like Huddersfield, and pay a fee and put them straight in to the side, as they have got to be better than what we have.

They could come down on the Saturday for the Captain's run and play the Sunday, that's all we'd need.

As always a well though out post MR.

The issue here is will Hughes bankroll this stop gap? My feeling is no.
On 2 fronts the new dawn has failed and he will be sulking about the lack of fans and having to pay for a band this weekend, rather than focussing on the abject failure on the park.
Was he at Leigh? Did it "jog his memory"? He has his well spoken of coach and he was delighted with the squad....he'll never admit he got it wrong. Making Danny Ward walk straight away ripped the heart out of that squad......many were never going to stay after their coach was treated so shoddily.

My solution would be to assemble 6 or more Northern based players in a "mini-squad" on-loan whilst we play away for the summer. Then, wherever possible get the southern based players north as early as possible for training pre-match.....Batley, Town, York, Dewsbury, Widnes & Sheffield.....if we could get some decent quality players for these games on loan, then I think we stay up.....none of those games are unwinnable, but we need to act now, or as you say, we leave it too late.

Re: Manager : Tue Apr 26, 2022 10:15 pm  

Deadcowboys1 wrote:

Which ever way you look at it, the silence from Hughes & his pet Lobster is deafening.

Now we know DC they were on the phone booking the band! Happy days.

Re: Manager : Tue Apr 26, 2022 10:24 pm  

BroncoBen wrote:

Another one gone yet Coleman stays!!

Emma Raducanu is now looking for her fourth coach in ten months. She wins the US Open and then immediately sacks that coach and has achieved nothing since. A shame we can't win something (anything this season) and then sack the coach. LoL!!

Re: Manager : Wed Apr 27, 2022 9:16 am  

Wire Quin, I would imagine if a new appointment is made, the club would only consider appointing a senior player as the Manager, such as Rhys Curran, or the likes of Joe Mbu or Rob Powell; essentially an already London based person, and again roll the dice on someone unproven.

I would not want the club that go that way, and thus have refrained from suggesting someone when there appears little chance of the type of manager I want.

The types of options I would like I think you can eliminate.

It is my view that Tony Rea has a good corporate career and would not give that up to work for a fickle leader who has a record of dismissing people which rules him out.

Hendo would be my preferred candidate by a mile, but I am not sure his personal circumstances would permit a return to London. I believe he lives in Warrington and has a partner from St Helens and also his four children are based somewhere which is likely to be in the north.

I also don't think the Hughes father and son want him back, and as I believe a lot of the changes made were in preparation for the son's inheritance, the son's view would be important.

Mystery surrounds the sudden departure of Danny Ward; but if I had to guess I would say he got wind of going part-time and showed his hand after a 50 point hammering and the fickleness of the leadership team of the time saw him axed there and then.

So the sorts of candidates I would like I believe are simply unavailable.

I can't see why a manager of recognised stature and proven ability in the Championship such as John Kear, Richard Marshall or Jon Sharp would come to the club given where things are, though all would be highly suitable.

Anyone who comes in would need to weed out pretty much all the players who have played in the past for either London Skolars or West Wales and the sorts of guys who have debuted at only around the age of 20 and have only ever played for the academy in the past. Very few are capable of more, as I have previously stated, with the fresh cream skimmed off, leaving only the sour cream for us to enjoy.

Henderson has managed out the dross before, and he would be my nomination. He's a ruthless man and he will not offer players more than they are worth, but he isn't going to waste his time fishing with a couple of hundred quid a week maximum wages as his bait, and that might be why Coleman remains.

In my opinion, anyone taking the job would need to be saying to the Hughes family; you are going to need to pony up for 4-6 players, these are the wages needed; we will need to start offering 2-3 year contracts and you are going to need to show me and the players the right commitment, otherwise I would think the manager themselves will have the trapdoor switch pressed on them.

The job cannot be done with what we have; basically a whole bunch of half backs and backs who simply cannot set up or score tries in the Championship. You'd be a mug to want a job which can't be done, lasts less than a year and ruins your reputation.

So, I would hire Hendo, and if not John Kear or Jon Sharp. If the job is strictly part time, Tony Rea would be highly acceptable and he could save the club, but he may have been burnt too many times by Hughes. Joe Mbu would probably be the best of the local candidates, and I believe he would at least have some support from the stands.

Re: Manager : Wed Apr 27, 2022 6:55 pm  

markrammond wrote:

Wire Quin, I would imagine if a new appointment is made, the club would only consider appointing a senior player as the Manager, such as Rhys Curran, or the likes of Joe Mbu or Rob Powell; essentially an already London based person, and again roll the dice on someone unproven.

I would not want the club that go that way, and thus have refrained from suggesting someone when there appears little chance of the type of manager I want.

The types of options I would like I think you can eliminate.

It is my view that Tony Rea has a good corporate career and would not give that up to work for a fickle leader who has a record of dismissing people which rules him out.

Hendo would be my preferred candidate by a mile, but I am not sure his personal circumstances would permit a return to London. I believe he lives in Warrington and has a partner from St Helens and also his four children are based somewhere which is likely to be in the north.

I also don't think the Hughes father and son want him back, and as I believe a lot of the changes made were in preparation for the son's inheritance, the son's view would be important.

Mystery surrounds the sudden departure of Danny Ward; but if I had to guess I would say he got wind of going part-time and showed his hand after a 50 point hammering and the fickleness of the leadership team of the time saw him axed there and then.

So the sorts of candidates I would like I believe are simply unavailable.

I can't see why a manager of recognised stature and proven ability in the Championship such as John Kear, Richard Marshall or Jon Sharp would come to the club given where things are, though all would be highly suitable.

Anyone who comes in would need to weed out pretty much all the players who have played in the past for either London Skolars or West Wales and the sorts of guys who have debuted at only around the age of 20 and have only ever played for the academy in the past. Very few are capable of more, as I have previously stated, with the fresh cream skimmed off, leaving only the sour cream for us to enjoy.

Henderson has managed out the dross before, and he would be my nomination. He's a ruthless man and he will not offer players more than they are worth, but he isn't going to waste his time fishing with a couple of hundred quid a week maximum wages as his bait, and that might be why Coleman remains.

In my opinion, anyone taking the job would need to be saying to the Hughes family; you are going to need to pony up for 4-6 players, these are the wages needed; we will need to start offering 2-3 year contracts and you are going to need to show me and the players the right commitment, otherwise I would think the manager themselves will have the trapdoor switch pressed on them.

The job cannot be done with what we have; basically a whole bunch of half backs and backs who simply cannot set up or score tries in the Championship. You'd be a mug to want a job which can't be done, lasts less than a year and ruins your reputation.

So, I would hire Hendo, and if not John Kear or Jon Sharp. If the job is strictly part time, Tony Rea would be highly acceptable and he could save the club, but he may have been burnt too many times by Hughes. Joe Mbu would probably be the best of the local candidates, and I believe he would at least have some support from the stands.

Good post. I have my reservations about Hendo, I think it became clear that he was only able to take us so far, with Danny Ward being the better coach who took us back to SL.
That said Hendo would be able to get more out of the current squad surely?

Re: Manager : Wed Apr 27, 2022 7:46 pm  

RfE wrote:

Good post. I have my reservations about Hendo, I think it became clear that he was only able to take us so far, with Danny Ward being the better coach who took us back to SL.
That said Hendo would be able to get more out of the current squad surely?

Hendo got us as far as he could, Ward got us further than anyone believed was possible......I'm at a loss as to why he wasn't snapped up by another RL club, but instead is lost to Union
The way he was treated by Hughes and shown the door immediately serves as an example of what other employees of Hughes can expect (unless your Lobster......apparently he can do no wrong)

Re: Manager : Wed Apr 27, 2022 10:03 pm  

I expect Danny Ward saw the writing on the wall hence informing the club he would not extend beyond the end of the season. Bonkers that DH showed him the door straight away especially when he leaves his underperfoming staff in post. Jamie Langley was also a big loss as I suspect he could have done a good job as head coach. From having a coaching team of 2 GB internationals we went downhill quickly.

Re: Manager : Thu Apr 28, 2022 8:35 am  

Hi, I definitely do not subscribe to the view that Hendo had taken us as far as he could. For about five or six years the club was in the bottom four every season and was relegated with 1 win in 27; the rebuild for the Championship failed and we were getting leathered by the likes of Sheffield and Dewsbury, when Grima was removed. The very same season Hendo came in. At this point there were about 10 club trained players, of which only 2 or 3 would go onto have a very good career and a lot of overseas players who would not play. In the first season he pulled off some great wins such as the Leigh home win and took us to the Shield Final; and his squad took us to three top 2 consecutive finishes. I believe that the 2016 squad was the strongest the club has had in the past decade or so. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Lond ... cos_season I am not sure that the 2017 squad was any better, and I did not think Hendo got a lot out of the relatively high wage Props he signed, although finishing second again. Just another 12 points scored across four games in the Qualifiers would have seen us start with 4 wins, but we lost by 2 to Catalan, 2 to Warrington, threw away a win against Featherstone to draw and lost by 5 at Hull KR. Once promotion became impossible we got slammed in the last two games after a win against Halifax. I believe Hendo fell out with the leadership team over lack of investment at this time. The side that Danny inherited had won 18 games from 23, was a convincing second, with a five point gap on third placed Featherstone and had got close to wins againt Super League opposition. Danny's signings such as Matty Fleming, Will Lovell and Daymeric Pelo I did not feel improved the club, only Eloi Pelessier was a great signing. Thus I feel that Hendo's squad, managed by Danny, took us up. Danny did a great job with a thinner quality squad, but it was obviously Hendo who was the architect. I would argue that in 2019, Danny again at times struggled in the transfer market, signing the likes of Nathan Mason and Greg Richards, but like Hendo he was let down by underinvestment at the crucial end of season time, that is a different story. I think Hendo could rebuild the club, and he has experience of the third division as well as the Championship and Super League and has played at different levels, he has the eye for a player, which is what I think we desperately need. Managers we have had who Hughes has lost patience with, have tended to be perceived to have blown his family pot on second rowers and Props who were seen as on more cash than they were worth, and I think that is why he has pressed the trapdoor switch on them, but in a thoughtless way. There is not always better out there.

Hi, I definitely do not subscribe to the view that Hendo had taken us as far as he could. For about five or six years the club was in the bottom four every season and was relegated with 1 win in 27; the rebuild for the Championship failed and we were getting leathered by the likes of Sheffield and Dewsbury, when Grima was removed. The very same season Hendo came in. At this point there were about 10 club trained players, of which only 2 or 3 would go onto have a very good career and a lot of overseas players who would not play. In the first season he pulled off some great wins such as the Leigh home win and took us to the Shield Final; and his squad took us to three top 2 consecutive finishes. I believe that the 2016 squad was the strongest the club has had in the past decade or so. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Lond ... cos_season I am not sure that the 2017 squad was any better, and I did not think Hendo got a lot out of the relatively high wage Props he signed, although finishing second again. Just another 12 points scored across four games in the Qualifiers would have seen us start with 4 wins, but we lost by 2 to Catalan, 2 to Warrington, threw away a win against Featherstone to draw and lost by 5 at Hull KR. Once promotion became impossible we got slammed in the last two games after a win against Halifax. I believe Hendo fell out with the leadership team over lack of investment at this time. The side that Danny inherited had won 18 games from 23, was a convincing second, with a five point gap on third placed Featherstone and had got close to wins againt Super League opposition. Danny's signings such as Matty Fleming, Will Lovell and Daymeric Pelo I did not feel improved the club, only Eloi Pelessier was a great signing. Thus I feel that Hendo's squad, managed by Danny, took us up. Danny did a great job with a thinner quality squad, but it was obviously Hendo who was the architect. I would argue that in 2019, Danny again at times struggled in the transfer market, signing the likes of Nathan Mason and Greg Richards, but like Hendo he was let down by underinvestment at the crucial end of season time, that is a different story. I think Hendo could rebuild the club, and he has experience of the third division as well as the Championship and Super League and has played at different levels, he has the eye for a player, which is what I think we desperately need. Managers we have had who Hughes has lost patience with, have tended to be perceived to have blown his family pot on second rowers and Props who were seen as on more cash than they were worth, and I think that is why he has pressed the trapdoor switch on them, but in a thoughtless way. There is not always better out there.