Re: The 14-5 Penalty Count : Mon Jun 08, 2015 10:38 pm  

BroncOnIon wrote:

We'll NEVER forget that one, will we?

Nope......NEVER!

Re: The 14-5 Penalty Count : Tue Jun 09, 2015 8:21 am  

mickyb1234 wrote:

Jim, got news for you, you can't play the game without them!

One error as you say by Mr Ganson in a draw, what about the other 79 minutes 55 seconds in the game. One incident is not the game folk conveniently forget that, it's quite funny that people think one incident decides a game what about all the other points that teams concede.

But an error that cost us the points - and an error that was seen live on TV! I know they're human and I know they make mistakes but I thought the whole point was you trained them to the highest standards, you give them capable assistants, and if possible you give them technology to minimise the mistake count. It's when the errors that are obvious to everyone in the stadium bar the ref that I get annoyed!

Re: The 14-5 Penalty Count : Tue Jun 09, 2015 8:59 am  

So the question to ask is does one decision make the result? My suggestion to that is no, it's the culmination of the whole 80 minutes. For example 22 22 draw catalan and Huddersfield, both teams still conceded and scored 22 points 1 knock on one fwd pass was not the defining moment it's the whole game. If a ref makes one call that is contentious fine, but maybe if that one player had not dropped the ball then the result would have been different.

Maybe play the game without officials rely on honesty of playerx

Re: The 14-5 Penalty Count : Tue Jun 09, 2015 11:04 am  

Micky, a ref could walk on with a machine pistol and empty the entire clip into one team, and you'd still say "they have to suck it up and get on with it". I'm convinced you're just trolling.

Re: The 14-5 Penalty Count : Tue Jun 09, 2015 11:49 am  

I think you hit the nail on the head though, errors are exactly that, errors and to err is human.
So as much as you train, as much as you add technology errors will still occur that goes for players as well as officials and as long as humans are involved you will not stop it. What is annoying is when the suggestion is it is deliberate or one team is unfairly dealt with by the match officials for whatever reason, you are now into violations for personal or organisational gain.

By all means get annoyed at the officials when or if they make an error, but look at all the other errors, and in fact violations made through the game by the other 26 players on the park. Basic point one mistake/error/violation determines the outcome, all of em together do.

Re: The 14-5 Penalty Count : Tue Jun 09, 2015 11:54 am  

Perry I will give you an example. A tj I know gave the ref advice in a game on a fwd pass, the ref chose to accept that advice and disallowed a try, apparently that one decision was the reason that team lost the game.
The dropped ball from a kick off that resulted in a try was irrelevant apparently, the ball kicked out on the full from re start was irrelevant apparently, it was down to one fwd pass decision.

If a ref walked on the pitch and did what you said that would be a deliberate act so nope I wouldn't say that at all, so why is it trolling.

Re: The 14-5 Penalty Count : Tue Jun 09, 2015 12:04 pm  

The point in this thread is in that particular game we gave away 14 Penalties to 5 and watching that game probably personally I would only argue that one was 50/50 and could have gone either way, we lost that 50/500 decision probably due to other reasons. The 40/20 call if as most say it was a 40/20 then the call by tj was an error he may have made a mistake, 2 results from that players accept decision set scrum and start defence on 22mtrs or argue and give away a penalty starting defensive set on yr own 40 or 30 mtr line, go figure what's best option?
The thing to consider as well is how many times have you seen a ref change his mind because a player is in his face?
By all means berate the officials as supporters if you have sat near me in the stands I am pretty good at it, but as a player it's pointless, and look at everything else that has happened in a game before putting result on officials alone

Re: The 14-5 Penalty Count : Tue Jun 09, 2015 8:34 pm  

mickyb1234 wrote:

Jim, got news for you, you can't play the game without them!

But there's nothing stopping us from improving their standards.

mickyb1234 wrote:

One error as you say by Mr Ganson in a draw, what about the other 79 minutes 55 seconds in the game. One incident is not the game folk conveniently forget that, it's quite funny that people think one incident decides a game what about all the other points that teams concede.

Let's set the scene for you. July 5th 2003 IIRC, Hull FC are visiting Griffin Park and both teams are chasing a play-off place, with London having Dennis Moran repeating his scintillating try scoring form of the previous year and Chris Thorman showing the form that would see him off to the NRL at the end of the year. 4,000 or so fans rolled up for the game, which was pretty even and can be best described as an arm wrestle, but towards the end, FC equalised and we were locked at 20/20 in the dying minutes. Both teams were tired and Moran spotted a gap, ducked through it and was left one on one with Colin Best, the FC full back. Moran ran towards best then chipped him on the 30 meter line and was going past Best before the FB had had a chance to even turn 180 degrees......so best grabbed Morans shirt and both players went down, the ball ran dead and the game ended in a draw. So, to answer your question...what happened for the rest of the game was 2 teams that were separated by 3 competition points after 28 rounds of the comp played a hard game of RL......but the important bit is that Steve Ganson delivered the result.

mickyb1234 wrote:

you mentioned the head of referees who do you refer too?

The Bloke that wiggy and stevo speak to every time there's a controversial moment in a TV game......is that not Cummins or someone who looks after the refs?

mickyb1234 wrote:

what's the rule for awarding a penalty try, do you know?

If an infringement or instance of foul play prevents the scoring of a definite try, then a penalty try shall be awarded.......or worded something similar. If you're asking was the Moran instance a penalty try incident, after Best, who was facing the wrong way, I was nearer to Moran than any other FC fan and I was at the back of the Breamar Road stand! It was a cast iron red card for Best for a professional foul and a penalty try....ganson didn't even penalise him whish would have given us 2 points and the win.....he bottled the decision!


By the way....I'm with you and Perry on the bit below!

Perry wrote:

I'm convinced you're just trolling.

mickyb1234 wrote:

I think you hit the nail on the head.

Re: The 14-5 Penalty Count : Tue Jun 09, 2015 8:48 pm  

As I understood it at the time, Ganson's mega-glitch referenced above was quietly acknowledged by the RFL to be down to ref fatigue. This resulted in the RFL subsequently taking steps to improve ref fitness, and so was quite a significant factor in improving refereeing standards.

(Ganson always did look overweight.)

Re: The 14-5 Penalty Count : Tue Jun 09, 2015 9:34 pm  

Not even sure what trolling is to be honest so can't comment, just trying to have a discussion and point out the officials only react to what they see and generally they are a lot closer than us! The ex ref on sky now works for sky not the rfl.
Basic error management, it generally takes errors to bring about change looks like this was case with the Ganson incident,
You are right on penalty try, the important thing is in view of ref, try would defiantly have been scored, how many have you seen?
Ref standards have improved and continue to improve