Re: Toronto game! : Tue Sep 04, 2018 3:35 pm  

If all refs are like Nortern Bloke the game will never change because they think they are right and everybody else is wrong.

Re: Toronto game! : Tue Sep 04, 2018 4:32 pm  

How right you are Wantawin. The simple fact is not only are the refs are all like Northernbloke. The whole of the RFL are like him. They think they are right and everyone else is wrong, that is the why the sport is in the situation it is in.

Re: Toronto game! : Tue Sep 04, 2018 5:21 pm  

Never said the ref guessed at all! Question for you, how do you decide if it was ripped or dropped, what do the refs look for?
As for time in the tackle, hope you realise it’s not a set time, it’s different for every tackle, that’s decided by the ref.
Interested what you expect from MO, you will never get the perfect game it’s impossible, all you need is the same for both sides.
I actually find it quite interesting that the two decisions that could have changed the game have not even been mentioned.
What are your suggestions to improve the situation? Not being argumentative just interested genuinely how folk think it can be changed?

Re: Toronto game! : Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:57 pm  

northernbloke wrote:

Never said the ref guessed at all!

In your example, you said the ref would make a decision without definitive evidence. I call that guessing. As I mentioned before, this a biased decision because it is based on assumptions that may not be valid.

northernbloke wrote:

Interested what you expect from MO

I expect like many fans I would like a consistent application of the rules and generally feel good refereeing tends not to overly influence or disrupt the game. Basically, if you haven't noticed the ref then I tend to think they have probably done a good job. However, what you are describing sounds like an overly complicated process where the ref takes into account the state of the game (e.g. who is dominating) when making decisions and also adjusts his application of the rules constantly (e.g. you said every tackle can be allowed for different time). That sounds like a recipe for inconsistency.

Re: Toronto game! : Wed Sep 05, 2018 5:06 am  

Well said jbuzza. Refs are not gods they are there to do a job by consistently following the rules set down by the rfl

Re: Toronto game! : Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:22 am  

At the start of this season the referees started to award penalties for 'Moving off the mark at the play of the ball'. This was across the game. It was as if this was chosen to be the penalty.
Suddenly that penalty gets dropped and 'Obstruction' becomes the fashion. It used to be 'The flop' which they focused on. That rarely gets penalized these days..
All we want is some consistency. No picking and choosing which rules you apply and which you turn a blind eye to.

Re: Toronto game! : Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:54 pm  

Bostwick wrote:

At the start of this season the referees started to award penalties for 'Moving off the mark at the play of the ball'. This was across the game. It was as if this was chosen to be the penalty.
Suddenly that penalty gets dropped and 'Obstruction' becomes the fashion. It used to be 'The flop' which they focused on. That rarely gets penalized these days..
All we want is some consistency. No picking and choosing which rules you apply and which you turn a blind eye to.

I totally agree with you Boswick.

Re: Toronto game! : Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:51 pm  

Again not trying to start an argument just keep a decent scussion going. Can’t disagree with the emphasis being put on certain areas of the game at certain times then ignored. A prime example was first couple of games of 8s our game v Widnes not one offside call.
On the tackle it is different though and it is a pretty consistent area, and if you listen to the way the ref calls the tackle count tells you if it’s rewarding the attacker or defender, as it should. And it’s not who is dominating the game it’s who dominates the tackle.
Bit like surrender tackle defenders are allowed more time rightly so!

Re: Toronto game! : Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:49 pm  

northernbloke wrote:

And it’s not who is dominating the game it’s who dominates the tackle.

You are mixing up different aspects of the discussion. I would rather get back to specifics so I can understand the way refs are thinking. Earlier you said:

northernbloke wrote:

Watch any game, the team that are dominating tend-to get the decisions that may be 50/50

Examples you gave of what happens when a team is dominating the game were:

northernbloke wrote:

ball coming out in the tackle, in that case if you are getting smashed by 3 or 4 defenders and ball bounces out chances are you probably knocked on! So without any definite evidence to say otherwise you will generally err on knock on not rip!

northernbloke wrote:

Widnes game, turn over ball 5 mtrs out from Widnes line. Defensive line set. Widnes go to play the ball, and half dummy the PTB 4 or 5 london players move off the 10 mtrs by a fair mark, ball is then played, the call could easily have been london offside and arguably should have been. Why did Ref let it go? The call went london’s way because they earned that field position, they went early because of the dummy PTB. By laws of the game it’s offside, sensibly and rightly in that case because of the combination of events the refs chose to let it go!

Is this really the case, do you have any evidence of referees being asked to do this sort of thing (as part of referees training or guidance for example) and why is this the case ? Personally, I suspect making decisions based on the game situation and potentially invalid assumptions would lead to inconsistent and biased decisions ? I think many fans get frustrated by inconsistent decisions.

On the separate matter of the individual tackle, my understanding is that when a tackle is called dominant the defender is allowed extra time before the attacker must be released, but you said that:

northernbloke wrote:

As for time in the tackle, hope you realise it’s not a set time, it’s different for every tackle, that’s decided by the ref.

So why is it different every time and how are refs instructed to decide ? Again, this is going to lead to inconsistency. One thing I personally find unacceptable (but rarely penalised) is the defender who holds down the tackled player while looking over his shoulder to see if his defensive line is set before releasing. In my view, if you have time to look around you have had time enough to release.