Re: TWP : Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:28 am  

Buzza, apart from the top level of football very few pro sports teams could survive or are sustainable on gate receipts, certainly not rugby league, what was average Salford Widnes even Hudds crowd, non of those clubs are sustainable without a benefactor.
Look at every club in championship, full time or not, sustainable is what is affordable to the owner! Note I said said what the club can sustain which is with DH input, I never said without. We are able to do that in the championship, I don’t think we are in SL which even with central funding needs more money.
As for the stand, let’s re visit the discussion in 10 years

Re: TWP : Sat Aug 18, 2018 11:41 am  

northernbloke wrote:

Buzza, apart from the top level of football very few pro sports teams could survive or are sustainable on gate receipts, certainly not rugby league, what was average Salford Widnes even Hudds crowd, non of those clubs are sustainable without a benefactor.
Look at every club in championship, full time or not, sustainable is what is affordable to the owner! Note I said said what the club can sustain which is with DH input, I never said without. We are able to do that in the championship, I don’t think we are in SL which even with central funding needs more money.
As for the stand, let’s re visit the discussion in 10 years

Yes, I understand exactly what you are saying but, in my view, clubs should be aiming to be sustainable without being totally reliant on owners. This is in more in line with what the RFL are trying to achieve. I think clubs can be complacent when relying on generous benefactors (for example, have the Broncos seriously tried to build crowds ??). When the day comes that the funding is no longer there they are screwed. I don't know if Broncos set targets to reduce reliance on DH but they should.

Re: TWP : Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:21 pm  

Can’t argue with that but let’s be honest Rugby league has been trying to do that for over 120 years so it’s going to be a long time before clubs are at that stage.
But moving on, Toronto losing, they didn’t look that good, and to be honest neither did KR

Re: TWP : Sun Aug 19, 2018 4:45 am  

northernbloke wrote:

But moving on, Toronto losing, they didn’t look that good,

Shocking.....and the crowd was no more than an average Broncos game circa 2008......even the beer tents looked empty. I seriously hope that the SL chairmen do their due diligence on the wolfpack, because there is something very wrong with a club that feel the need to announce a gate that is patently less than 4k as an 8k attendance......it really is the adage that an oft repeated lie becomes truth......

Re: TWP : Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:19 pm  

Ludicrous gate announcements were the norm at certain clubs in League One when I was watching both Oxford and London Broncos for a few seasons. The infamous gate of 51 when Oxford played Rochdale at Hemel came about because the club didn't declare a gate to the RL media so one of the media people present did a head count. Had they done I bet the official gate would have been higher. That gate was genuine however it isn't the smallest crowd I have been in at a professional RL game despite the fact it is in the record books as the all time worst. I counted 31 once at a game not involving Oxford.

It does nothing for the credibility of the sport when clubs do this in this day of social media images revealing truer figures and it can backfire. I remember in the early days at Oxford when they were declaring 400 odd and getting 300 - 350. In holiday season there was a poor gate, probably about 250. A couple of newbies asked me where everyone was as they were expecting a vibrant club with 400 people not what they found. I never saw them there again.

Re: TWP : Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:09 pm  

Call Me God wrote:

Toronto are a well polished PR machine, but let's see how many beer festivals sell out in March when St Helens are sticking 50+ on them.....and remember, they played their first home game at a school playing field a while back and didn't fill that ground, so it'll take at least a decade of freebies and hard work before the habit is formed in toronto.

This is an old post of yours CMG, but once again I'm pointing out that making stuff up continues to weaken the value of your posts.

How many beer festivals will we sell out in March? We have Toronto FC just down the road from us who play from late February to December, depending on the fixtures, in the open air. We're in Canada, we just put on our parkas and go to the matches. We'd be delighted to play St Helen's in March, bring it on.

Their first home game at a school playing field? Oh boy, another anti-Wolfpack myth based on one photo that someone posted showing a tree at the far edge of the pitch. Because Lamport Stadium was having the surface relaid, we played our May 6 home game v Swinton at Fletcher's Field, in the nearby town of Markham. It is the home ground of Rugby Ontario and has six full-size rugby pitches. Yes, it's in the country, so you can see trees and also some nearby farms. Cows even. But not a school in sight. The stand holds 3,000 and it was full. (I was there with the terrific away fans from Swinton and a very decent meat pie, you were looking at pictures of a tree and drawing the wrong conclusions).

If you don't like Wolfpack, then at least make your case based on facts, not on wishful thinking of how bad you'd like it to be.

Re: TWP : Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:25 pm  

Call Me God wrote:

Shocking.....and the crowd was no more than an average Broncos game circa 2008......even the beer tents looked empty. I seriously hope that the SL chairmen do their due diligence on the wolfpack, because there is something very wrong with a club that feel the need to announce a gate that is patently less than 4k as an 8k attendance......it really is the adage that an oft repeated lie becomes truth......

Sigh.

I was lined up in the beer tents, were you?

Again with the telly experts and the attendance figures. You're only seeing one side of the ground on tv. Camera is in the west stand, viewing the east stand crowd. This is usually less populated than the west stand because you get the sun in your eyes. More people choose the west stand, with the sun at your back, and this isn't shown on tv except in rare shots taken from the cameraman on the sidelines. The announced gate was 7542, not 8000.

Still more than any of the other qualifier gates, but hey it's good for another fact-free bash.

Re: TWP : Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:31 pm  

I'd like to welcome travelling Broncos fans to Toronto and the Den on September 1. We enjoyed meeting those of you who came over earlier in the season and will extend another warm welcome. Hopefully you'll enjoy the beer garden, it's inside the ground and features a range of excellent local craft beers and also Brew Dog and MeanTime from the UK. We're expecting a great turnout and a great match.

Pre- and post-match, most people go to the 3Brasseurs (3Brewers) pub on Hanna Street, just a short walk from Lamport. Also nearby is the Craft Brasserie (120 craft beers on tap), Brazen Head, and Liberty Commons, all good pubs. You can reach Lamport Stadium by public transport very easily - the 504 or 514 streetcar (tram) on King Street takes you right to the ground (get off at Jefferson Avenue) or the 511 streetcar takes you into the Exhibition grounds and you walk north, under the railway line and up the street, turn left onto Jefferson.

In the beer garden, look for the two tents that sell tokens. They cost $9.50 each and are good for any beer or other alcoholic beverage.

Enjoy your stay and enjoy the experience. Wolfpack fans are delighted to meet away fans and will make sure you have a good time. May the best team win!

Re: TWP : Wed Aug 22, 2018 7:56 am  

pandamonium wrote:

This is an old post of yours CMG, but once again I'm pointing out that making stuff up continues to weaken the value of your posts.

Dragging up old osts to start a debate....yeah, you're no troll

pandamonium wrote:

How many beer festivals will we sell out in March? We have Toronto FC just down the road from us who play from late February to December, depending on the fixtures, in the open air. We're in Canada, we just put on our parkas and go to the matches. We'd be delighted to play St Helen's in March, bring it on.

BMO Field is a modern state of the art facility...Lamport offers no overhead cover and the wind-chill in late Feb early March will drag the temp further down......

pandamonium wrote:

Their first home game at a school playing field? Oh boy, another anti-Wolfpack myth based on one photo that someone posted showing a tree at the far edge of the pitch. Because Lamport Stadium was having the surface relaid, we played our May 6 home game v Swinton at Fletcher's Field, in the nearby town of Markham. It is the home ground of Rugby Ontario and has six full-size rugby pitches. Yes, it's in the country, so you can see trees and also some nearby farms. Cows even. But not a school in sight. The stand holds 3,000 and it was full. (I was there with the terrific away fans from Swinton and a very decent meat pie, you were looking at pictures of a tree and drawing the wrong conclusions).

No it wasn't.......2,917 was the announced attendance in a stadium with a seated capacity of 3,200.

pandamonium wrote:

If you don't like Wolfpack, then at least make your case based on facts, not on wishful thinking of how bad you'd like it to be.

It is a fact that Toronto have bought 2 divisional shields and my opinion that they will probably go up this year......good luck to them, but if you desire a debate about what happens when you build a club on sand, smoke and mirrors and the cash of one benefactor, please be aware that I have been there, done that and have various wardrobes packed with T-shirts.......

Re: TWP : Wed Aug 22, 2018 12:14 pm  

Call Me God wrote:

BMO Field is a modern state of the art facility...Lamport offers no overhead cover and the wind-chill in late Feb early March will drag the temp further down......

BMO's overhead cover is just that ... an overhead cover, constructed high above the seats. There are no walls either at the back or sides of the stands. It keeps off overhead rain but does nothing to keep out wind or impact either the temperature or the wind chill. There is no cover at all over the south end, which is where the wind blows in off the lake. It is closer to the lake than Lamport, and most seats are higher off the ground. I've been to late season matches where the wind blew snow horizontally, right in our faces. But the ground was full.

Call Me God wrote:

No it wasn't.......2,917 was the announced attendance in a stadium with a seated capacity of 3,200.

You are correct.

I'm not interested in a debate about the entire history of failures in rugby league. I want to support my team and make sure that others - whether supporters, detractors, or wait-and-see-ers - get correct information about the club and the location.