Re: 7,700? Have we been mugged? : Sun Oct 03, 2021 2:58 pm  

This comment appeared on an AFC Wimbledon site in the last half an hour:

"Jerk chicken, rice and peas I had yesterday was the best food I have ever had at a football ground."

The Balti Pies sold at Wimbledon's own Concession outlets get a lot of great feedback. Expensive (£4.50 I think) but with the AFC Emblem in the pastry. I understand it is the same pie provided in one of the Hospitality levels,

Re: 7,700? Have we been mugged? : Sun Oct 03, 2021 3:28 pm  

Smithers99 wrote:

Your last sentence is so well put (so is the first sentence as well). Three months ago I would have paid no attention to it. My perspective is so changed. I thought we'd go to a football match, now we are going to an event. We get there early to eat and drink having checked which food vans are arriving for the particular game.

Post match there is the (Wimbledon) Man of the Match interview in the Pub Area. Subtle but I promise you it increases the beer sales and also forces you to leave via the Club Shop as more merchandise flows.

Then there is the Kid's Area. The opportunity to take penalties or for the smaller kids drawing type activities. I saw Haydon (the mascot) was goalkeeper yesterday.

The only concern I have is how the Broncos use the Fans Zone. The East and South Stands were closed for the Papa John's match v Portsmouth reducing capacity to around 5,800 with no access to the Fan Zones. I'm not sure how the Broncos will utilise the ground with a presumably smaller crowd.

Here's a story of the Street Food Van's. Nobody (supporters) knew about them before the first match. So most supporters ate and drunk locally arriving late at the ground to see a variety of food options in addition to the stadium concessions. So the six vans did a poor trade. But the fans noticed, so for the midweek match three days later many changed their plans. Only three vans came this time, two doing chips. The queues were massive, even if you could even work out what was a queue.

I spoke to the guy at the local Fish & Chip shop. At the first match they sold very little and only came again as they signed up as a sponsor of the Family Zone section in the East Stand. On the Tuesday they were overwhelmed and ran out of food. The club also listened in their Thursday (for Saturday matches) Stadium Guide articles they now list the names of the vans attending the next match enabling supporters to make an informed choice of whether to eat at the ground.

The food vans, pub and beer stands remain open post match.

The food varieties include Fish & Chips, Pasta, Pizza, Jamaican, Vegan, Toasties, Indian plus some others I forget for now. The club stands sell burgers, hot dogs, pies etc. A variety of Beers and Ciders on tap at Beer only outlets. Basic Wine options (and beer) at the main concession outlets.

I think you are not comparing apples with apples, as a supporter of amateur football for many years now I can remember AFC starting in the Combined Counties League, every AFC away game was a bonus for the clubs in that league because of the money they made out of AFC fans attending the games.
The clubs in the lower leagues made a lot of money as AFC moved up the pyramid because of AFC fans attending away games. London broncos have been the opposite since 1997 when I first started supporting the Broncos they have gone from gates in the thousands to gates in the very low hundreds, moving to 6 new grounds over that period (including Plough Lane). Every time the club has moved we have been promised this move will be the last because we want to build a fan base.
AFC have not had the problem of moving home grounds since they were established, they made their home base Kingsmedow which is very close to Wimbledon and then moved back to Plough Lane which was where their original home ground was. With the move back to Plough Lane they are going pick up old fans who would not travel to Kingsmedow and a number of people who have since moved into the local area. Broncos are relying on picking up AFC fans and locals to the ground, this has not worked in the past after moving to 3 football grounds and 2 rugby union grounds. The gates may be swelled initially but once the novelty wears off it will be the same old same old.
I would love to see it work for AFC and the Broncos at Plough Lane, but do not build your hopes up.

Re: 7,700? Have we been mugged? : Sun Oct 03, 2021 5:21 pm  

I'm all for the move to plough lane now it seems they have some food vans
It really wouldn't matter if they were giving away the jerk chicken and 3 pints of Stella....the broncos will get a few curious visitors and then about 300....$200,000 for the rent on maybe 5,000 spectators all season is sheer lunacy.

Re: 7,700? Have we been mugged? : Sun Oct 03, 2021 7:50 pm  

orangeman wrote:

I'm all for the move to plough lane now it seems they have some food vans
It really wouldn't matter if they were giving away the jerk chicken and 3 pints of Stella....the broncos will get a few curious visitors and then about 300....$200,000 for the rent on maybe 5,000 spectators all season is sheer lunacy.

Unfortunately the Broncos don't even get the food vans! That is just the club inviting local business to set up a van/stall inside the ground, but of course those vans pay a fee to the club. I assume a fixed fee after which they take the profits (or the loss).

The point was that there are opportunities to do something different.

Whilst I understand your point "the broncos will get a few curious visitors and then about 300", the point is that you need to entice people back to become more regular supporters. I know it's a very different scenario, but I'm watching AFC Wimbledon doing things that are making a difference; even whilst they are making some big cock-ups. Even if the rent were free, 300 would be a failure.

Re: 7,700? Have we been mugged? : Sun Oct 03, 2021 8:08 pm  

wantawin wrote:

I think you are not comparing apples with apples, as a supporter of amateur football for many years now I can remember AFC starting in the Combined Counties League, every AFC away game was a bonus for the clubs in that league because of the money they made out of AFC fans attending the games.
The clubs in the lower leagues made a lot of money as AFC moved up the pyramid because of AFC fans attending away games. London broncos have been the opposite since 1997 when I first started supporting the Broncos they have gone from gates in the thousands to gates in the very low hundreds, moving to 6 new grounds over that period (including Plough Lane). Every time the club has moved we have been promised this move will be the last because we want to build a fan base.
AFC have not had the problem of moving home grounds since they were established, they made their home base Kingsmedow which is very close to Wimbledon and then moved back to Plough Lane which was where their original home ground was. With the move back to Plough Lane they are going pick up old fans who would not travel to Kingsmedow and a number of people who have since moved into the local area. Broncos are relying on picking up AFC fans and locals to the ground, this has not worked in the past after moving to 3 football grounds and 2 rugby union grounds. The gates may be swelled initially but once the novelty wears off it will be the same old same old.
I would love to see it work for AFC and the Broncos at Plough Lane, but do not build your hopes up.

I wasn't trying to compare the situations; they are totally different as you describe. Rather I was trying to highlight that it needs to be an event rather than just a match; that's just my opinion though.

You've highlighted something that I am ignorant of. As you say AFC Wimbledon had a "home" location and has driven most of the last 20 years. Together with how they lost the club means it is relatively easy to understand what the club means.

The Broncos are different (to me at least). Location means Fulham to me, but presumably to a Bronco fan that is little more than a location in the early days. But there has (certainly was) something bonding the supporters to the Broncos. A team representing London at the highest levels in a popular sport perhaps. I hope I'm not offending here, I guess I'm asking what is the ideal set-up and where does location fit into that. Where should the team play if money was no objective and the aim is to be a Superleague team?

Re: 7,700? Have we been mugged? : Sun Oct 03, 2021 8:22 pm  

If we could get the crowds I'd say Quins The best purpose built club rugby stadium in London so no pitch size issues. Space for kids zones, live bands etc. Reasonable public transport access and in a part of London with good pubs, restaurants for those wanting more than just rugby.

Unfortunately we seemed to burn bridges pretty spectacularly there so there's not much chance. TBH the ground was too big for us by the end. Returning with current gate levels would be horrendous.

Sub 2k gates rattling around at Charlton showed just how poor an experience it is when there are thousands of empty seats.

Re: 7,700? Have we been mugged? : Sun Oct 03, 2021 10:20 pm  

Halfdan of t'wide embrace wrote:

If we could get the crowds I'd say Quins The best purpose built club rugby stadium in London so no pitch size issues. Space for kids zones, live bands etc. Reasonable public transport access and in a part of London with good pubs, restaurants for those wanting more than just rugby.

Unfortunately we seemed to burn bridges pretty spectacularly there so there's not much chance. TBH the ground was too big for us by the end. Returning with current gate levels would be horrendous.

Sub 2k gates rattling around at Charlton showed just how poor an experience it is when there are thousands of empty seats.

The stoop is 100% where we should be playing. Before Hughes appointed idiots to roles they weren't qualified for as well as the insane name change followed by a dummy spit of gigantic proportions, we were on about 4k in a 14k stadium but with a decent match day experience.

As far as I can gather, the deteriation of the relationship with Quins was 100% down to us and the staff paid to make sure we were looked after.....we had a Christmas Open Day at the club in 2008 and I was asked to turn up early to clear the concourse of Dozens of empty kegs, sweep the concourse and pick up litter...all because the Landlord, who had played a game the day before 'didn't know we were having an event". They didn't know because the club didn't tell them....our attitude towards Quins was appalling, but Gus fed the "anti union" brigade and Hughes with utter nonsense so we changed our name and moved to Barnet where we shed thousands of fans.....David Hughes and Gus Mackay are the reason we find ourselves being part time and moving yet again........good luck to AFC........they deserve the 200k a year id Hughes pays no heed to the cacophony of people who have said "that's it"!

Re: 7,700? Have we been mugged? : Mon Oct 04, 2021 12:52 pm  

The Stoop had everything, lots of trains from waterloo, lots of parking, great facilites both inside the ground and outside, lots of nearby bars in Twickenham.

I really don't see more than a few hundred Dons fans coming to the games, and those probably will be attending for free as part of some Dons ST offer. Actual paying Dons fans would probably be <50. Considering you would have less than 200 paying london fans, looks like we will be hoping Bradford \ Leigh \ Fev \ Fax will bring thousands of fans to away games paying £25 per ticket to get the ground revenue.

As even if 1K dons fans show up, how many of them will be paying, and therefore getting LB some revenue to improve the squad.

Re: 7,700? Have we been mugged? : Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:02 pm  

Smithers99 wrote:

I wasn't trying to compare the situations; they are totally different as you describe. Rather I was trying to highlight that it needs to be an event rather than just a match; that's just my opinion though.

You've highlighted something that I am ignorant of. As you say AFC Wimbledon had a "home" location and has driven most of the last 20 years. Together with how they lost the club means it is relatively easy to understand what the club means.

The Broncos are different (to me at least). Location means Fulham to me, but presumably to a Bronco fan that is little more than a location in the early days. But there has (certainly was) something bonding the supporters to the Broncos. A team representing London at the highest levels in a popular sport perhaps. I hope I'm not offending here, I guess I'm asking what is the ideal set-up and where does location fit into that. Where should the team play if money was no objective and the aim is to be a Superleague team?

I think up until we moved to Barnet the game day was an exprience, there was a number of different food oulets, we had top singers on the pitch at half time plus mini rugby. We had bands in the bar afterwards. Brentford was my favorite ground ( a dump but it felt like home). The Stoop was the best ground we played at as it was based on rugby and the bar and hosptality facilites were second to none.

Re: 7,700? Have we been mugged? : Tue Oct 05, 2021 3:54 pm  

orangeman wrote: Have a look at the video on Youtube for the highlights of AFC V Portsmouth from early September. The far stand is empty, the terrace at one end is empty, the away fans at the other end is 1/4 full at best.....so even if the stand where the cameras are placed was full, they are looking at 3k maximum. so, if only 2,700 Wimbledon fans can be bothered (I know it was a cup match) to see their side back at their spiritual home, how the hell are we going to get families from the borough to games? 5.. The papa Johns cup match video clearly shows that 50% of the stadium wasn't open to the public. It also shows that the away fans numbers 300 at best.....AGAIN...unless you've seen or read elsewhere that this isn't the case, then by all means share with the group. . Re point 5 you asked! Sticking to Youtube take a look at another video from a lady called Windie at her second ever AFC Wimbledon match. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EwDn39k9MY&t=206s Forward to 3:30. Note Windie is sitting beyond the goal line. Then pause at 3:45. Between the two “tunnels” are 1,136 away seats. Are there really only 300 Portsmouth fans there? There are a further 329 Away seats to the left of the “tunnel” that which also had Portsmouth occupation. I think the figure of 835 from Portsmouth themselves is far closer (there will be no shows plus those at the bar/toilets) Next pause at 3:50. Not many empty seats in the only area of the ground made available to AFC Wimbledon supporters (3,264 lower tier seats I believe). Remember where Windie is seated at that point (she does seem talented at moving around the ground mind!) so most seats are in her video The tier above has Hospitality. It was limited availability for this match, but was sold out. The empty seats in the distance are for Away fans. Season Tickets were not valid for this match. A lot of regulars boycott the competition on principle. I’m not aware of any advertising for the match. The two stands weren’t closed due to slow sales. The closure existed at the point the tickets went on sale. Windie was lucky to get a ticket, rarely is that approach likely to work again. There were empty seats where she sat, but her video clearly shows a crowd of around 4K in my opinion. To close for me to say 4K+ with any certainty. A good game to illustrate the demand in Wimbledon really is there; that was not only a big crowd for Wimbledon in the Papa John’s Trophy group stage, but would also be for most clubs. I’m not on this forum to big-up AFC Wimbledon. The opening post in this thread attempts to prove the lack of local interest in the football and is used as proof why there is little hope of support for the Broncos. Maybe there won’t be enough support, but it’s misleading to suggest it’s because there isn’t even enough interest for the football. Rather I’m interested and excited at the prospect of watching the London Broncos. I can see there is a lot of upset over the direction of the club in recent years. If the Broncos move to Plough Lane (and I suspect it’s 50/50 they stay at Ealing) then local support will be essential. The suggestion that little more than 200 fans will continue to follow the Broncos highlights that. AFC Wimbledon fans is just an easy entry into that local support, they will need to capture other local fans also.. New fans don’t need Superleague quality. We need to be entertained and have a level of competitiveness. Whilst I suspect the potential league structure re-orgs / reduced financial distribution is going to create some mismatches, it doesn’t suggest the Broncos will be left adrift from their entire division. The 200K fixed rent a year isn’t going to work (unless somebody at the Broncos wants to contribute it as a loss leader separate from the team’s budget). So I doubt the Broncos will play at Plough Lane whilst paying that. Either Ealing or closure; probably dependent on what contractual obligations they have with AFC Wimbledon and whether they can be renegotiated. My guess is AFC Wimbledon will compromise, but only so far as at a certain level, then they themselves will decide to withdraw the ground sharing offer.

orangeman wrote: Have a look at the video on Youtube for the highlights of AFC V Portsmouth from early September. The far stand is empty, the terrace at one end is empty, the away fans at the other end is 1/4 full at best.....so even if the stand where the cameras are placed was full, they are looking at 3k maximum. so, if only 2,700 Wimbledon fans can be bothered (I know it was a cup match) to see their side back at their spiritual home, how the hell are we going to get families from the borough to games? 5.. The papa Johns cup match video clearly shows that 50% of the stadium wasn't open to the public. It also shows that the away fans numbers 300 at best.....AGAIN...unless you've seen or read elsewhere that this isn't the case, then by all means share with the group. . Re point 5 you asked! Sticking to Youtube take a look at another video from a lady called Windie at her second ever AFC Wimbledon match. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EwDn39k9MY&t=206s Forward to 3:30. Note Windie is sitting beyond the goal line. Then pause at 3:45. Between the two “tunnels” are 1,136 away seats. Are there really only 300 Portsmouth fans there? There are a further 329 Away seats to the left of the “tunnel” that which also had Portsmouth occupation. I think the figure of 835 from Portsmouth themselves is far closer (there will be no shows plus those at the bar/toilets) Next pause at 3:50. Not many empty seats in the only area of the ground made available to AFC Wimbledon supporters (3,264 lower tier seats I believe). Remember where Windie is seated at that point (she does seem talented at moving around the ground mind!) so most seats are in her video The tier above has Hospitality. It was limited availability for this match, but was sold out. The empty seats in the distance are for Away fans. Season Tickets were not valid for this match. A lot of regulars boycott the competition on principle. I’m not aware of any advertising for the match. The two stands weren’t closed due to slow sales. The closure existed at the point the tickets went on sale. Windie was lucky to get a ticket, rarely is that approach likely to work again. There were empty seats where she sat, but her video clearly shows a crowd of around 4K in my opinion. To close for me to say 4K+ with any certainty. A good game to illustrate the demand in Wimbledon really is there; that was not only a big crowd for Wimbledon in the Papa John’s Trophy group stage, but would also be for most clubs. I’m not on this forum to big-up AFC Wimbledon. The opening post in this thread attempts to prove the lack of local interest in the football and is used as proof why there is little hope of support for the Broncos. Maybe there won’t be enough support, but it’s misleading to suggest it’s because there isn’t even enough interest for the football. Rather I’m interested and excited at the prospect of watching the London Broncos. I can see there is a lot of upset over the direction of the club in recent years. If the Broncos move to Plough Lane (and I suspect it’s 50/50 they stay at Ealing) then local support will be essential. The suggestion that little more than 200 fans will continue to follow the Broncos highlights that. AFC Wimbledon fans is just an easy entry into that local support, they will need to capture other local fans also.. New fans don’t need Superleague quality. We need to be entertained and have a level of competitiveness. Whilst I suspect the potential league structure re-orgs / reduced financial distribution is going to create some mismatches, it doesn’t suggest the Broncos will be left adrift from their entire division. The 200K fixed rent a year isn’t going to work (unless somebody at the Broncos wants to contribute it as a loss leader separate from the team’s budget). So I doubt the Broncos will play at Plough Lane whilst paying that. Either Ealing or closure; probably dependent on what contractual obligations they have with AFC Wimbledon and whether they can be renegotiated. My guess is AFC Wimbledon will compromise, but only so far as at a certain level, then they themselves will decide to withdraw the ground sharing offer.