Re: Fans Forum 8th February : Sun Feb 09, 2014 7:08 pm  

mickyb1234 wrote:

The problem is gutters you are not here and you are not running the club and are never likely to.

Never say Never Michael. Given the incumbent, I suggest an untrained chimp could do it, so that doesn't count me out

mickyb1234 wrote:

You have seen the EXACT figure for the stoop, so what is it?

Matchday costs for the club in 2012 were £222,244. We played 13 home SL games and a CC cup game......12 of these 14 were at the Stoop, so even if you believe that Orient and Gillingham were freebies that would be £300k, Rammond is spinning for Gus.

mickyb1234 wrote:

Bar prices, yep I will give you a reasonable price, decent coffee double espresso £1.80 2 and half at the stoop so yep I see that as reasonable prices

This is againa smokescreen. The current CEO has cost the club HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS in lost ticketing revenue alone. The price of beer/coffee/sandwiches etc is not directly connected to attendances. The fact that you and Spinmaster Mark Mark want to concentrate on the cost of coffee speaks volumes

mickyb1234 wrote:

FACT quins rl/broncos were not granted use of all the facilities at the stoop on match days.

Actually, that is not a fact...it is a myth. Quins RU became less amicable towards the end of our stay there, but whilst we officed there, we had access to everything. I am no fan of the Union Club. I seem to remember volunteers clearing up after a Union game so the RL club could have an open/Christmas day......but they didn't remove or block access to anything until WE started getting arsey and talked about leaving.

mickyb1234 wrote:

how much is he being paid by the rfl to market us?

Who cares....it's another income he's getting. It was admitted at the Forum...he is taking NO RISKS.

mickyb1234 wrote:

We have always had player sponsorship, most clubs do it? whats wrong with it?

Nothing....but in the context of Marky Marks post, it was mentioned like a major cog in the wheel of Broncos recovery. The club haven't even put a price on it......you have to contact them for more details.....like an infomercial

mickyb1234 wrote:

You call someone a lemming and say they are swallowing bollox that's not what it is at all! its called being an optimist! if we all took your view good god it would be depressing.

I say it is. Look at the team we have.....look at the ground we are playing in and look at the clubs general demeanour and tell me that we are better off than we were on Jan 13th 2011!

mickyb1234 wrote:

WE GET IT! its not gonna be easy, yes we know staying up will shock all the pundits, we know the hive is not the perfect solution, but without it staying up would not be an issue as we would not be here

And Michael, the question that many on here would not rather answer is,

WHAT GOT US INTO THE SITUATION WHERE WE HAD TO BEG FOR A GROUND, GIVE ALL OUR INCOME AWAY AND GET THE RFL TO PAY THE LANDLORD TO TAKE US?

If the skipper of the titanic had survived, how quickly do you reckon the blue star line would have been to give him the helm of another ship?

I call bullshit when I see it Michael and the forum was spoon fed bullshit delivered to a willing audience of willing and hungry diners. 50 there, less at the last forum and if you're generous, that's 75 people who may have bought 2 memberships each.....Season Ticket revenue at the club in 2010 before Gus was £213,000. Matchday ticket revenue was another £350,000.......commercial another £275,000. All that is now gone.....as are the coaches and development teams and any semblance we had of being a "club".
AK cares not a jot for RL........he is on a guaranteed income with a chance of more this year...he wont invest a brass farthing after getting it for nothing.

Re: Fans Forum 8th February : Sun Feb 09, 2014 7:25 pm  

meliferra wrote:

This is not correct. the rent of Underhill is not related to the use of the Hive for first team games. Underhill has it's own gym and treatment rooms that are sole use of the Broncos so they do not have to book facilities in the same way that Barnet Fc and London Bees have to. They have been given an allocation of time on the 4G pitches in the run up to their first game.

WE PAY RENT. Regardless of what we get for it, WE PAY RENT. We were paying rent at the stoop and Roehampton and we were doing our own administration....which AK is now being paid to do.

meliferra wrote:

I know you want to bash TK for receiving money to cover his costs and potentially to make a profit from it.

Nope....I don't want to bash him at all. What I will do is point out that he's not the messiah that some on here think he is. He is renting us space and he is also being paid to market us...he is not investing a brass farthing in London Broncos RL. I am not bashing him. He's a business man and he is on to a winner here......all of the Revenue for none of the Risk.....it's a truly sweet deal for him. Good luck to the bloke!

meliferra wrote:

Any profit made will be put back into the Hive and isn't going into anyone's pocket as you seem to be suggesting.

WTF? I said he wasn't investing in London Boncos. BTW, who owns the Hive? If he's reinvesting it in The Hive and he owns the Hive....what exactly would you call that? I never said he was pocketing it, but is someone gave me cash and I put new windows in my house, I'd say that was most assuredly me benefitting.

meliferra wrote:

Underhill was still making money through events and party bookings at the Durham suite and by renting out the pitch, both of these revenues have been lost by Broncos taking over the site so it seems fair to me that the loss of revenue is covered, especially as it is Hive groundstaff who maintain the facilities for the Broncos to use.

Underhill being rented out now an again replaced by a full time tenant......Oh, the hardship. I can feel the belt tightening from here.

Re: Fans Forum 8th February : Sun Feb 09, 2014 7:50 pm  

So you want TK to cover Broncos debts instead of DH.

Everyone I think has the message by now that it aint going to happen, but that does not mean that Broncos have no future at the Hive and can't stay at the top table or if not then be competitive enough to fight it out in the middle group of eight next year.

The point I was making is that the Broncos stay at the Hive and the Hives profitability with Broncos are interrelated. If the Broncos or BFC or London Bees are successful the the Hive will be more profitable and more capable of expanding to accommodate them. If they are not then it will stay as it is now. Put another way, if Broncos need a larger stadium in the future then the money that went into the Hives balance sheet will help pay for it.

You have chosen to separate Broncos from the Hive but i'm afraid that with the new setup I don't believe you can if you are looking for a future that contains London Broncos. The Hive have taken over the running of the club in all respects other than the players on the pitch, if they make a mess of it then it's bleak, if they succeed then there is hope.
They are already integrating RL into the Community Trust work and looking to make Broncos stay long term and sustainable. Whether they will succeed I don't know but I'll give them the benefit of having a go.

This asks another question for fans if Broncos are able to have a team that costs the maximum allowed then what difference does it make to a fan how that is paid for? Truth is their money has been reducing the losses covered by someone else. It will be interesting to see what the Bronco accounts look like in a years time and compare to their last year at the Stoop to see how the new finances spin out.

Re: Fans Forum 8th February : Sun Feb 09, 2014 8:18 pm  

rose tinted, there was no skolars game!! it was a training session not a game.
proves you cant believe all you read on the forum which is why the club should issue reliable information

Have the forum on a game day! so TR tood in front of us and answered questions, what would you prefer, he is stood in front of us the fans or focusing on the game?
Why not other coaches have and they have been valable sessions with a large cross section of fans

What are the conference facilities being used for prior to the game on 22nd? Their is already summat going on that is for the benefit of London Rugby League in general by the way.
So why not hold it in one of the bars

Trust me the forum was not just for those "select few" as you put, in fact the air was sucked from the room when paddock appeared!!
GREAT he probably added real value with his common sense approach

The club, that means DH/TK/Gus/TR acknowledged that communication was key, but what do you want them to do come knocking at your door! the forum.
I will ignore your condescending attitude to answer in a mature manner. No I dont want them knocking on my door but I would expect to see mail shots. The club managed to float our names,addresses and in some cases phone numbers on the internet so why not take th eopportunity to send mail shots of what is happening at the club and make an apology to fans for doing wrong.

Also the only way to get new fans is to advertise and appealing to internet users is not good enough. We need mailshots and adverts. There is not even information to old fans regarding buying tickets the first home game is two weeks away and I have seen and heard nothing about it.

Re: Fans Forum 8th February : Sun Feb 09, 2014 8:37 pm  

meliferra wrote:

So you want TK to cover Broncos debts instead of DH.

Nope. I want London Boncos to not make losses in the first place. To do that, they need to increase their revenue streams.......2014 is the year we have given up ticketing revenue and handed the most important aspect of off-field activity to a guy with an average of 1,500 for soccer. Put another way, the people making decisions at the club do not have a loving clue how to build revenue streams do they are going to give the responsibility to a guy who has a very limited track record in this area. GENIUS

meliferra wrote:

Everyone I think has the message by now that it aint going to happen, but that does not mean that Broncos have no future at the Hive and can't stay at the top table or if not then be competitive enough to fight it out in the middle group of eight next year.

AK is a salesman. Standing up at a forum is bread and butter to him and to applaud him for it is insanity. As for the future. Stay up in 2014 and then what? The losses in 2014 may be reduced to 1.2 from 2.4 million, but without Hughes, the club immediately becomes a 7 figure liablity. Go down and believe me, a crowd of 1,000 will be a "bumper" turn out.....and you assume that a top 4 finish in the 2nd tier would be bolted on?

meliferra wrote:

The point I was making is that the Broncos stay at the Hive and the Hives profitability with Broncos are interrelated. If the Broncos or BFC or London Bees are successful the the Hive will be more profitable and more capable of expanding to accommodate them.

London Broncos have had business plans dependant on a successful team in the past. If that is the case in 2014 well then it is not long now until it truly is GAME OVER!

meliferra wrote:

If they are not then it will stay as it is now.

London outside of SL and without Hughes will not be able to afford Underhill, will not attract RFL marketing funding and if they get sub 1k crowds they will cost AK money to just open the gates....

meliferra wrote:

Put another way, if Broncos need a larger stadium in the future then the money that went into the Hives balance sheet will help pay for it.

You talk about the future like the club has one? London Broncos have a core of between 400 and 600 fans......you may get a spike for some of the bigger visitors, but unless someone somewhere has a strategic plan that includes strategies for the exit from SL and 5 years + in the lower tier on little income, building from the bottom up, then there really is little use for the word "future" when discussing London Broncos as a viable professional entity.

meliferra wrote:

You have chosen to separate Broncos from the Hive but i'm afraid that with the new setup I don't believe you can if you are looking for a future that contains London Broncos. The Hive have taken over the running of the club in all respects other than the players on the pitch, if they make a mess of it then it's bleak, if they succeed then there is hope.

With all projects, there need to be rewards and consequences. We know what the rewards are for The Hive and its owner, but what are the consequences of failure? Not for London Broncos, but for The Hive?

meliferra wrote:

They are already integrating RL into the Community Trust work and looking to make Broncos stay long term and sustainable. Whether they will succeed I don't know but I'll give them the benefit of having a go.

Buddy, there are kids and community work results all over the West and South West of London....if that's the strategy that is paying such massive dividends for Barnet FC then we are truly loved!

meliferra wrote:

This asks another question for fans if Broncos are able to have a team that costs the maximum allowed then what difference does it make to a fan how that is paid for? Truth is their money has been reducing the losses covered by someone else. It will be interesting to see what the Bronco accounts look like in a years time and compare to their last year at the Stoop to see how the new finances spin out.

Indeed, the finances will be interesting.........because 1.85 million in SKY money will not bankroll the first team and their associated costs EXCLUDING coaches. That cost in 2012 was 2.7 Million quid........that's everything from wages, through travel, treatments, away accommodation and all the other stuff that running a pro RL team involves.
4 Million a year is the minimum turn over for a SL club to be competitive.......doing it on a budget is what London, Wakefield, Castleford and Bradford are doing in 2014 and 2 of those 4 will be gone by September.....that's the fact of life in regards to the top tier of RL in the UK......IT IS NOT PART TIME SOCCER!

Re: Fans Forum 8th February : Sun Feb 09, 2014 9:25 pm  

A crap deal or folding completely, I know what I'd choose.

Re: Fans Forum 8th February : Sun Feb 09, 2014 9:41 pm  

Wire Yed wrote:

A crap deal or folding completely, I know what I'd choose.

There is that but there comes a point, particularly when the lunatics are still in charge of the asylum.

Re: Fans Forum 8th February : Sun Feb 09, 2014 9:42 pm  

Wire Yed wrote:

A crap deal or folding completely, I know what I'd choose.

........not putting ourselves in that position in the first place?

Re: Fans Forum 8th February : Sun Feb 09, 2014 9:59 pm  

So the cost for the stoop was either 18.5k or or 15.8 per game?
Your comment on smoke screen and the cost of coffee, I do believe you asked for specifics, I gave you a specific, from a fans point of view its better than the rip off at the stoop, and the bar staff smile at you at least unlike the grumpy lot at the stoop.
As for use of the facilities at the stoop, mate I spent long enough last season and the season before in the tunnel on match day, their were facilities that were NOT made available to the broncos that is a fact.
You are happy to quote all other figures, marketing funding by the RFL is not solely London all clubs benefit, what was suggested at the forum is that the RFL should think about marketing the GAME more in the south considering our catchment area. It was a follow on to all the talk the RFL gave to success of the RLWC.
The club spent at least 40k last year on market btw
no-one has said we are better off than in 2011, everyone at the forum probably agreed we have gone backwards massively.
DH is still the bloke who owns us and is the money man so basically its down to him to appoint the CEO
Player sponsorship, actually they have put a price on it!
Willing and hungry diners!!!! don't know what you mean! questions were asked, and they gave answers honestly, there was no flannel, there was no bullshit.

Melf, I don't think anyone is actually saying TK should take over now, but as you say in a year or two or three years time who knows what is going to happen.
TK stood up and fended questions and seemed pretty genuine, again no flannel no bullshit yep he said their had been hickups and their were still things that needed work but importantly he was willing to listen to what the club and the supporters want and need to make it a success

Re: Fans Forum 8th February : Sun Feb 09, 2014 10:04 pm  

a crap deal or folding or not getting ourselves in the position in the first place, the clock cannot be turned back, so you are left with the first two options, gutters we are where we are!! the clock cannot be turned back