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Re: It's that time of year AGAIN Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:29 pm  

User avatarRfE wrote:
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jaybs wrote:
we and other clubs are not here to feed Top Super League Clubs!


But that's exactly what we do - and have been doing for a decade or so.
From LMS and Tony Clubb right up to Rob Butler.
Sad really. I had hoped our academy would produce Londoners and Southern players who could play in Super League - they do, but not for us.
Rise like Lions after slumber
In unvanquishable number--
Shake your chains to earth like dew
Which in sleep had fallen on you--
Ye are many -- they are few.'

Percy Bysshe Shelley - 'The Mask of Anarchy'



Marvin Gaye - 'Wherever I lay my hat, that's my home' - a motto for London Broncos surely.
Re: It's that time of year AGAIN Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:31 pm  

Deadcowboys1 wrote:
Deadcowboys1 Cheeky half-back
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RfE wrote:
But that's exactly what we do - and have been doing for a decade or so.
From LMS and Tony Clubb right up to Rob Butler.
Sad really. I had hoped our academy would produce Londoners and Southern players who could play in Super League - they do, but not for us.


That I think is in part because every year seems to be surrounded with uncertainty, especially since we were relegated from SL in 2014. We therefore don't very often offer contracts of more than 2 years meaning we will struggle to hold onto them if not in SL. Not unreasonable to have a compensation scheme for Academy trained players that move on under the age of 21 or 23 whatever unless they are released by their clubs. It works in football, not perfect but does generate funds for lesser teams.
Re: It's that time of year AGAIN Wed Apr 21, 2021 8:27 pm  

User avatarorangeman wrote:
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jaybs wrote:
Look at Widnes now, to think how they were such a major club, now struggling to even win?


Let's Look at Widnes as a VERY GOOD example of the experiences of clubs over the SL period.
2002-2005. 6,200 average gate (Division average 8,800) WLD = 39/71/3. Relegated from 11th because of the French Arrival
2006-2007 BOOM or BUST = BUST still with 4,800 average gates still higher than the division average at the time
2007-2011 Rebuild with an investor, building an academy and reconnecting with the community and 3,200 averages, still above average
2012-2014 3 Seasons free of the threat of relegation saw last, 10th and then a play-off finish (39/59/3) and a rising on year an base of 6,500 average (10k SL ave).
2015-2018......once again looking over their shoulders at the drop, Widnes returned to type and eventually lost their fans, their owner and their SL status but maintained a 5.5k average gate over this period until they dropped down.

My point is that the period where the Widnes team & club grew in stature and support numbers was the period where they didn't have to look over their shoulders. The return of the drop saw the risk for the owner too great and the spend required to continue the build but also ensure survival was too much.

Put it this way. Let's say Featherstone Rovers beat the odds and get promoted this year and replace say, Wakefield. Do you see anything other than Fev going straight back down on the back of 20+ hammerings and Wakefield drifting into Oblivion in 2022?

Do you see anything other than the 4 survivors this year from HKR/SALFORD/HUDDERSFIELD/WAKEFIELD/LEIGH competing with the newly promoted side with the sole aim of keeping their noses in the trough only to repeat the struggle in 2023?

SL is boring at the top, because it's the same bloody teams every year and now, we have a chasm that has cut away the 5 at the foot of the table....
Re: It's that time of year AGAIN Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:46 pm  

User avatarjbuzza wrote:
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orangeman wrote:
Do you see anything other than the 4 survivors this year from HKR/SALFORD/HUDDERSFIELD/WAKEFIELD/LEIGH competing with the newly promoted side with the sole aim of keeping their noses in the trough only to repeat the struggle in 2023?

SL is boring at the top, because it's the same bloody teams every year and now, we have a chasm that has cut away the 5 at the foot of the table....


The solution to this could be to reduce the size of SL and have a better promotion & relegation contest.
Re: It's that time of year AGAIN Thu Apr 22, 2021 7:03 am  

Deadcowboys1 wrote:
Deadcowboys1 Cheeky half-back
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Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2010 6:10 pm
Posts: 529
jbuzza wrote:
The solution to this could be to reduce the size of SL and have a better promotion & relegation contest.


Doubt a 6 or 8 team Super League would be attractive to any broadcaster. Would be like when the Scottish FA came up with their system where Celtic played Rangers & co 4 times a season. :shock:

Might be better to enlarge to 15. Spread the payments out more & get rid of loop fixtures & magic weekend. If there then is room for a Magic Weekend, make it a festival of 7s or 9s for the 3 leagues.

Perhaps the big question is why is there such a large disparity between 12 teams where a salary cap has been in force for so many years & everyone seems to claim to be spending to the cap?
Re: It's that time of year AGAIN Thu Apr 22, 2021 9:30 am  

User avatarjaybs wrote:
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orangeman wrote:
Let's Look at Widnes as a VERY GOOD example

SL is boring at the top, because it's the same bloody teams every year and now, we have a chasm that has cut away the 5 at the foot of the table....


Interesting with Widnes in their real glory days, they were run by a committee, then the businessman in recent years came in, pumped money into the club, and they went backwards? and I think they are back to being committee only.

Look at Ken Davey Huddersfield Giants, it was his wife who was interested in RL, not him, he then owned the football club, which he has now relinquished all interests in, since taking over the rugby league club, how much has he put in, but little success, and he sold one of his companies in 2001 for £75 Million!

I am also getting to the stage that some Super League games are just boring, friends are so looking forward to tonight with Saints at home to Huddersfield, but it does not interest me at all, we can tell what will happen now without looking in the crystal ball, which is boring, as well as putting up with the 2 clowns co-commentating!
Re: It's that time of year AGAIN Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:27 pm  

wantawin wrote:
wantawin Strong-running second rower
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jaybs wrote:
How many transfer fees have we received to feed Super League clubs along the M62 corridor over the years? We can all list a team of players we have developed, that would make a fine Super League team, I have said over and over again, Any Club who develops young players, should receive a reasonable fee, we and other clubs are not here to feed Top Super League Clubs!

This will never happen all of the time you have the SL club owners making the rules, they will not want to spend money on buying good academy players.
Re: It's that time of year AGAIN Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:57 pm  

User avatarjaybs wrote:
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wantawin wrote:
This will never happen all of the time you have the SL club owners making the rules, they will not want to spend money on buying good academy players.


Yes! But it should & must happen, in my BARLA days we had to fight to get the £50 which had been agreed by all Parties.
Re: It's that time of year AGAIN Thu Apr 22, 2021 10:21 pm  

User avatarorangeman wrote:
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Deadcowboys1 wrote:
That I think is in part because every year seems to be surrounded with uncertainty.

Not really.....the only thing we're uncertain of is if THIS IS THE YEAR that Hughes walks. We're like Wire but without the forlorn hope :D
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Mon 21st Jun
WSL RND: 6 Hudds W18-28FeatherstoneW
Sun 20th Jun
CH RND: 10 Dewsbury24-68Featherstone
CH RND: 10 LondonB46-12Whitehaven
CH RND: 10 Newcastle40-6Oldham
CH RND: 10 Swinton4-34Halifax
CH RND: 10 Widnes30-20Sheffield
CH RND: 10 York20-22Batley
L1 RND: 7 Workington34-28Rochdale
L1 RND: 7 Hunslet16-18Doncaster
NRL RND: 15 Parramatta36-10Canterbury
NRL RND: 15 Gold Coast24-56Manly
WSL RND: 6 BradfordW10-42LeedsW
WSL RND: 6 WiganW22-8CastlefordW
WSL RND: 6 Wire W52-14WakefieldW
WSL RND: 6 YorkW24-0St.HelensW
Sat 19th Jun
L1 RND: 7 West Wales10-60Crusaders
L1 RND: 7 LondonS14-24Barrow
NRL RND: 15 Newcastle10-6NZ Warriors
NRL RND: 15 St.George22-20Canberra
NRL RND: 15 Melbourne66-16Wests
This is an inplay table and positions can change as matches are in play.
National Rugby League 2021 ROUND : 16
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Melbourne 15 538 194 344 26
Penrith 15 450 151 299 26
Parramatta 15 436 234 202 24
Souths 14 387 282 105 22
Sydney 14 397 255 142 18
Manly 14 371 306 65 16
 
St.George 15 321 332 -11 14
Cronulla 14 270 322 -52 12
NQL Cowboys 14 288 409 -121 12
Newcastle 15 241 372 -131 12
Canberra 14 277 343 -66 10
NZ Warriors 14 287 357 -70 10
Gold Coast 15 342 436 -94 10
Wests 15 308 440 -132 10
Brisbane 15 232 482 -250 6
Canterbury 14 172 402 -230 4
This is an inplay table and positions can change as matches are in play.
Betfred Super League XXVI ROUND : 11
 PLDFADIFFPTSDIFFWP%
Catalans 9 268 142 126 16 188.73 88.89
St.Helens 9 208 76 132 14 273.68 77.78
Wigan 9 166 154 12 14 107.79 77.78
Warrington 10 308 159 149 15 193.71 75
Hull FC 10 243 165 78 13 147.27 65
Hull KR 10 241 212 29 12 113.68 60
 
Castleford 10 203 244 -41 10 83.20 50
Leeds 8 150 136 14 6 110.29 37.50
Huddersfield 9 158 171 -13 6 92.40 33.33
Wakefield 10 175 249 -74 4 70.28 20
Salford 10 115 297 -182 4 38.72 20
Leigh 10 156 386 -230 0 40.41 0
This is an inplay table and positions can change as matches are in play.
Betfred Championship 2021 ROUND : 11
 PLDFADIFFPTSDIFFWP%
Toulouse 7 347 70 277 14 495.71 100
Featherstone 9 374 100 274 18 374 100
Batley 9 250 180 70 14 138.89 77.78
Bradford 9 228 216 12 14 105.56 77.78
LondonB 10 272 228 44 13 119.30 65
Halifax 10 305 139 166 12 219.42 60
 
Widnes 10 256 283 -27 9 90.46 45
York 10 239 202 37 8 118.32 40
Sheffield 10 231 279 -48 8 82.80 40
Newcastle 9 208 252 -44 7 82.54 38.89
Dewsbury 9 139 295 -156 6 47.12 33.33
Whitehaven 10 172 324 -152 5 53.09 25
Oldham 10 140 370 -230 4 37.84 20
Swinton 10 156 379 -223 0 41.16 0
This is an inplay table and positions can change as matches are in play.
Betfred League One 2021 ROUND : 7
 PLDFADIFFPTSDIFFWP%
Barrow 7 275 80 195 14 343.75 100
Doncaster 7 268 142 126 12 188.73 85.71
Workington 7 244 134 110 12 182.09 85.71
Keighley 6 228 147 81 6 155.10 50
Hunslet 7 162 165 -3 6 98.18 42.86
Crusaders 7 182 228 -46 6 79.82 42.86
 
Coventry 5 118 144 -26 4 81.94 40
Rochdale 7 189 230 -41 4 82.17 28.57
LondonS 6 128 236 -108 2 54.24 16.67
West Wales 7 92 380 -288 0 24.21 0
This is an inplay table and positions can change as matches are in play.
Betfred Womens Super League 2021 ROUND : 7
 PLDFADIFFPTSDIFFWP%
LeedsW 4 256 32 224 8 800 100
WiganW 4 180 26 154 8 692.31 100
St.HelensW 4 230 30 200 6 766.67 75
CastlefordW 4 112 46 66 6 243.48 75
YorkW 4 100 102 -2 4 98.04 50
Wire W 5 138 168 -30 4 82.14 40
 
FeatherstoneW 5 102 182 -80 4 56.04 40
BradfordW 5 70 222 -152 2 31.53 20
Hudds W 5 64 250 -186 2 25.60 20
WakefieldW 4 30 224 -194 0 13.39 0
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