Re: Smithies Departure Confirmed. : Tue Oct 31, 2023 11:12 am  

Cherry_&_White wrote:

Annoying isn't it. I think we can put Leeds out of that because they haven't really developed any top class players in a generation, and you could argue the last ones (i.e. Hardaker and Watkins) did get their chance in the NRL.

Saints are more puzzling though. I think there's an element of Wigan being better at developing players who are 'NRL ready' at an earlier stage of their career. As good as this latest Saints team have been, most of their home grown stars' top form has come slightly later than Bateman, Williams, Smithies etc.

Thinking of their players who you think were of the right level, Lomax, Makinson & probably even Walmsley probably weren't as attractive when they were 23/24 compared to some of ours. Thompson was, but then he got his chance. Lees might've been, but then had his bad injury. Percival's injury record probably counted against him too.

Lomax and Makinson were definitely good enough at the age Smithies is now although you can equally see why they might not have been wanted, Makinson was pretty slight back then and Lomax had been through some injury problems. Joe Burgess was much bigger lad at a similar age (maybe younger) and you'd think he would have been more built for the increased physicality over there.

I do think Saints will see a lot more interest in this current and future generation of young players. Welsby, Dodd, Delaney all tremendous prospects (feels weird calling Welsby a prospect given all he's achieved) and by all accounts a very good set of youngsters waiting in the wings to be brought in over the next couple of years.

Re: Smithies Departure Confirmed. : Tue Oct 31, 2023 11:14 am  

How can he leave? I thought the woman off the other site has asked him 50 times and told him he's not allowed to leave.

Re: Smithies Departure Confirmed. : Tue Oct 31, 2023 11:30 am  

SFW wrote:

Lomax and Makinson were definitely good enough at the age Smithies is now although you can equally see why they might not have been wanted, Makinson was pretty slight back then and Lomax had been through some injury problems. Joe Burgess was much bigger lad at a similar age (maybe younger) and you'd think he would have been more built for the increased physicality over there.

I do think Saints will see a lot more interest in this current and future generation of young players. Welsby, Dodd, Delaney all tremendous prospects (feels weird calling Welsby a prospect given all he's achieved) and by all accounts a very good set of youngsters waiting in the wings to be brought in over the next couple of years.

To be fair I think it's as much about perception as it is ability. Take Lomax, there's no doubt that he's been a brilliant player, but I'd say that's only become obvious when he was well into his career. In retrospect there were plenty of decent players at saints under Cunningham (when Lomax was in his min twenties) but you'd have been hard pressed to find anyone at the time saying that NRL clubs would be waiting in the wings.

Agree about Welsby and Delaney. Massive season for Dodd coming up.

Re: Smithies Departure Confirmed. : Tue Oct 31, 2023 11:49 am  

Good luck to Morgan, we move on. The most frustrating part to me is seeing players go to the NRL when they are still under contract.

Re: Smithies Departure Confirmed. : Tue Oct 31, 2023 12:54 pm  

I wish him all the luck in the world over there - he's turned into a great player and it'll be a massive loss for Wigan.

I do struggle however to understand players being allowed to leave mid-contract, particularly if the financial issues perhaps aren't as significant as they were with Danson coming in. Doesn't it send a bad message to any other players who have NRL ambitions? What is wrong with asking players to fulfil the commitment they've made?

Re: Smithies Departure Confirmed. : Tue Oct 31, 2023 1:46 pm  

MadDogg wrote:

I wish him all the luck in the world over there - he's turned into a great player and it'll be a massive loss for Wigan.

I do struggle however to understand players being allowed to leave mid-contract, particularly if the financial issues perhaps aren't as significant as they were with Danson coming in. Doesn't it send a bad message to any other players who have NRL ambitions? What is wrong with asking players to fulfil the commitment they've made?

That's a two way street though - if you develop a rep of holding players to contracts in the face of NRL interest don't be surprised when talented young players opt to sign short-term deals and you stop receiving fees.

Re: Smithies Departure Confirmed. : Tue Oct 31, 2023 2:03 pm  

MadDogg wrote:

I wish him all the luck in the world over there - he's turned into a great player and it'll be a massive loss for Wigan.

I do struggle however to understand players being allowed to leave mid-contract, particularly if the financial issues perhaps aren't as significant as they were with Danson coming in. Doesn't it send a bad message to any other players who have NRL ambitions? What is wrong with asking players to fulfil the commitment they've made?

I sympathise with this viewpoint to a degree, but the Danson factor shouldn't really be relevant. As you say, Morgan was already under contract. If Wigan had 'upped it' mid-term just because he was asking to leave, that would have been setting an ugly precedent.

We could of course have offered him a much better contract when this current one is complete, and I'd be amazed if we didn't at least consider that. But I think it's more than just money. Whether we like it or loathe it, the NRL is now seen as RL's big league while we are just minnows.

Unless, as someone else pointed out, a player is a real home-body, it's now become a right of passage for them to try their hand in Aus. It's almost as though they're never fulfilling their potential if they don't.

Re: Smithies Departure Confirmed. : Tue Oct 31, 2023 2:18 pm  

Everyone has a price. For me, I'd have Smithies as a marquee in a heartbeat and certainly over someone like Thompson. We'd have just had to get to a number that Morgan couldn't turn down.

Re: Smithies Departure Confirmed. : Tue Oct 31, 2023 2:39 pm  

sergeant pepper wrote:

Everyone has a price. For me, I'd have Smithies as a marquee in a heartbeat and certainly over someone like Thompson. We'd have just had to get to a number that Morgan couldn't turn down.

But maybe the factor wasn't numerical, maybe it was about testing himself and life experience, money talks but when you already have it and you have achieved just about everything you can in your domestic sport, the chance to try and achieve more elsewhere can and will be a big draw.

Re: Smithies Departure Confirmed. : Tue Oct 31, 2023 2:41 pm  

Well firstly I think we have respect Smithies for his efforts this year. Along with KPP, he has not dipped at all despite knowing he was leaving and if anything both their form just got better and better. I think both will do well in the NRL and will have a great career over there.

The bitter blow and I can only echo the comments from all on here is that we continually lose these lads. It is what has in my eyes held us back from sustained success like Leeds and St.Helens when they've had dominant spells - both clubs managed to retain that core group of players.

And yet I find it hard to be critical of the club for their approach with respect to having an open and honest culture with the players about their ambitions so they can recruit a replacement, secure a significant transfer fee etc and respect the wishes of the player, which will be the reason why KPP and Smithies continued to give their all and more for us and we ended up with a Grand Final.

The bigger issue is wider for the game. For young, unmarried, ambitious and talented RL players Super League is a stepping stone and the premier competition (and better lifestyle) is in the NRL. I wish we could keep them - I don't have the answer how we can do it.

We have made some great signings for next year, but talk of any "dynasty" will depend on us securing Harry Smith to a long term deal and trying to keep either French or Field (preferably both of course) for the next 2-3 years. We have Smith, French and Field all out of contract in 2024 (albeit with options for 1 and 2 years with French and Field - no idea in whose favour).