Re: Mossop : Sun Jun 21, 2015 8:53 pm  

Wigg'n wrote:

Stevie Ward and Grant Millington.

Go and sit down in a dark corner.

First of all none of those play for Wigan.
Second none of those could/would do the job that Mossop does.

Re: Mossop : Sun Jun 21, 2015 8:56 pm  

Rogues Gallery wrote: Wigan don't rely on our props making big metres, but they expect them to be good defensively. http://www.superleague.co.uk/matchday/player/2497 If that is the sole expectation at Wigan for our props then we really are stuffed. To name one example from the stats you provide, Mossop has made 182 carries to 338 from Alex Walmsley and 1200 metres to 2500 metres from Walmsley. And regardless of tackles 'completed', do you rate Mossop as a good defender? Poor techinque and poor positioning for me. Those combined with poor fitness, a recipe for disaster.

Rogues Gallery wrote: Wigan don't rely on our props making big metres, but they expect them to be good defensively. http://www.superleague.co.uk/matchday/player/2497 If that is the sole expectation at Wigan for our props then we really are stuffed. To name one example from the stats you provide, Mossop has made 182 carries to 338 from Alex Walmsley and 1200 metres to 2500 metres from Walmsley. And regardless of tackles 'completed', do you rate Mossop as a good defender? Poor techinque and poor positioning for me. Those combined with poor fitness, a recipe for disaster.

Re: Mossop : Sun Jun 21, 2015 9:02 pm  

Rogues Gallery wrote:

Go and sit down in a dark corner.

First of all none of those play for Wigan.
Second none of those could/would do the job that Mossop does.

Which is what?

Both of them out-stat Mossop, seeing as that's a key indicator to you.

Re: Mossop : Sun Jun 21, 2015 9:06 pm  

MadDogg wrote:

If that is the sole expectation at Wigan for our props then we really are stuffed.

To name one example from the stats you provide, Mossop has made 182 carries to 338 from Alex Walmsley and 1200 metres to 2500 metres from Walmsley.

And regardless of tackles 'completed', do you rate Mossop as a good defender? Poor techinque and poor positioning for me. Those combined with poor fitness, a recipe for disaster.

And Walmsley has missed a lot more tackles.
When Wigan looked at him their scouts reports advised against signing him, because his lateral movement was poor. If you watch the Saints game two weeks ago, he was blowing out of his backside after 10 minutes, we didn't capitalize but that was down to our poor completion.

Re: Mossop : Sun Jun 21, 2015 9:14 pm  

Christ our scouts are useless then. Walmsley is the best prop in the league alongside Chris Hill.

Re: Mossop : Sun Jun 21, 2015 9:16 pm  

Rogues Gallery wrote:

And Walmsley has missed a lot more tackles.
When Wigan looked at him their scouts reports advised against signing him, because his lateral movement was poor. If you watch the Saints game two weeks ago, he was blowing out of his backside after 10 minutes, we didn't capitalize but that was down to our poor completion.

Which player would you rather have Mossop or Walmsley?

Re: Mossop : Sun Jun 21, 2015 9:17 pm  

Rogues Gallery wrote: I don't see the problem. All the experts from other clubs said he was injury prone and would only play about 10 games. His stats are o.k. Wigan don't rely on our props making big metres, but they expect them to be good defensively. Mossop and our props do that. http://www.superleague.co.uk/matchday/player/2497 Rogues I agree with the majority of your posts but on this one we couldn't be further apart in our opinions. I genuinely don't like calling players but this guy lately is literally pinching a living. I was seething on Friday night and if anything my anger with him has grown. On two occasions on Firday the ball was his to take up and he turned his back on the play to let Tautai to take the ball in even though on both occasions he had already taken the ball in within the set and had in one tackle taken a good hiding. Tautai if he has anything about himself should have dropped Mossop in the dressing room after the game. I personally don't give a fishes tit about stats particularly regarding tackles when most are two or three men tackles. Perception is reality not bloody stats that some cling to as the holy grail. Statistically Henman had a great record at Wimbledon BUT he never won the damn thing so stats are irrelevant. Our props at the moment are embarrassing with Mossop at the top of the pile. I would send Mossop up to Workington personally for the rest of the season in fact let him stay up there for good it just might be the making of him. The last time I felt so angry about a player was Moran and before it was Bob Irving who was the ring leader when the players threatened to strike and on a few matches they didn't actually try and it was blatant two fingers to the spectators who had the misfortune to pay and watch a sad part of our history. If our pack is considered small I fully understand and support the rationale in playing the ball wide as much as possible however, that doesn't mean our props shouldn't do the grunt work and leave it to Sarginson to be a one man band impersonation of a front row. We shouldn't try and defend the indefensible. Whilst I'm on a roll I would also send Bitcon and co to spend time at a local amateur team to realise that it is possible for a forward other than second rowers who can actually play 80 minutes in a match. Can anyone explain why it is only second rowers at our place who actually play 80 minutes every week doing a damn sight more work than our props yet never need a breather?

Rogues Gallery wrote: I don't see the problem. All the experts from other clubs said he was injury prone and would only play about 10 games. His stats are o.k. Wigan don't rely on our props making big metres, but they expect them to be good defensively. Mossop and our props do that. http://www.superleague.co.uk/matchday/player/2497 Rogues I agree with the majority of your posts but on this one we couldn't be further apart in our opinions. I genuinely don't like calling players but this guy lately is literally pinching a living. I was seething on Friday night and if anything my anger with him has grown. On two occasions on Firday the ball was his to take up and he turned his back on the play to let Tautai to take the ball in even though on both occasions he had already taken the ball in within the set and had in one tackle taken a good hiding. Tautai if he has anything about himself should have dropped Mossop in the dressing room after the game. I personally don't give a fishes tit about stats particularly regarding tackles when most are two or three men tackles. Perception is reality not bloody stats that some cling to as the holy grail. Statistically Henman had a great record at Wimbledon BUT he never won the damn thing so stats are irrelevant. Our props at the moment are embarrassing with Mossop at the top of the pile. I would send Mossop up to Workington personally for the rest of the season in fact let him stay up there for good it just might be the making of him. The last time I felt so angry about a player was Moran and before it was Bob Irving who was the ring leader when the players threatened to strike and on a few matches they didn't actually try and it was blatant two fingers to the spectators who had the misfortune to pay and watch a sad part of our history. If our pack is considered small I fully understand and support the rationale in playing the ball wide as much as possible however, that doesn't mean our props shouldn't do the grunt work and leave it to Sarginson to be a one man band impersonation of a front row. We shouldn't try and defend the indefensible. Whilst I'm on a roll I would also send Bitcon and co to spend time at a local amateur team to realise that it is possible for a forward other than second rowers who can actually play 80 minutes in a match. Can anyone explain why it is only second rowers at our place who actually play 80 minutes every week doing a damn sight more work than our props yet never need a breather?

Re: Mossop : Sun Jun 21, 2015 9:20 pm  

NickyKiss wrote:

Mossop started very brightly but recently he's gone well off the boil. He's always had the same issue IMO in that he drifts through many games and doesn't take hold of them and try to be a leader. He simply must start to take that role on IMO. He's been around the first team for 5 years or so and done a season in the NRL. He needs to stick his hand up and start setting an example by busting a gut week in week out.

Overall I'd sum his season up as typical Lee Mossop.

i.e. a failure

Re: Mossop : Sun Jun 21, 2015 9:32 pm  

This leads back to a post in another thread. You need balance upfront in the Props.

Walmsley for me by far the best British impact style Prop there currently is. Were it a choice between any if our Props I wily gladly swap him for Tautai.

Having said that I would also swap him for Mossop.

I still very much struggle with the messages coming out of Wigan in relation to size of pack etc then we sign small players such as Patrick and Tautai to add to our already small pack containing Farrell and Bateman.

Go forward is the basis for every successful team. We consistently lack go forward. We regularly lose the collision and that is leading to issues with our form.

We are desperate for a quality Prop to add to the squad, maybe 2.

If our scouts passed up on Warmsley firstly they need to accept they made a huge mistake and if it is for the reasons of lateral movement etc they need to have confidence in making him better in that department.

Re: Mossop : Sun Jun 21, 2015 9:34 pm  

Rogues Gallery wrote:

MadDogg wrote:

If that is the sole expectation at Wigan for our props then we really are stuffed.

To name one example from the stats you provide, Mossop has made 182 carries to 338 from Alex Walmsley and 1200 metres to 2500 metres from Walmsley.

And regardless of tackles 'completed', do you rate Mossop as a good defender? Poor techinque and poor positioning for me. Those combined with poor fitness, a recipe for disaster.

And Walmsley has missed a lot more tackles.
When Wigan looked at him their scouts reports advised against signing him, because his lateral movement was poor. If you watch the Saints game two weeks ago, he was blowing out of his backside after 10 minutes, we didn't capitalize but that was down to our poor completion.

Yes, give me Mossop over Walmsley any day.

Come on mate don't be stubborn for the sake of it.

The notion that Wigan are not interested in their prop forwards making good metres upfield literally makes me want to bang my head against a wall.