Re: Your England Team : Sat Oct 22, 2016 11:06 am  

Rogues Gallery wrote:

You can't seriously believe that Ferres and or Ward should be picked in front of a player that has just won the Harry Sunderland award in the Grand Final. I like Ward, but don't rate Ferres at all. How many games has Ward actually played this season?

If you look at their stats for this season Farrell comes out far better than either of those two players. Where is this 40 tackles a game from Ward? Ward is less than an inch taller than Farrell and only 2lbs heavier. As for this wonderful Watkins/Ferres combination, weren't Leeds the lowest try scorers in Superleague this season?

I agree Farrell has been better this year, but lets look at his international performances where he has consistently been bullied out the game compared to Ferres who has had big impact on games. If Farrell comes up against Martin Tapau or Sam Thainday he will get totally dominated and we will consistently loose the PTB on his side.
It is a matter of tactics, nothing to do with his performances this year.

Ward constantly made over 40 tackles last year and usually dominates the tackle when he does. He may not be much heavier than Farrell but neither is Bateman, yet I would argue both are clearly stronger than Farrell from the way they take the ball into contact and are both more aggressive in the tackle

The one negative against Ward is the amount of games he has played (as you mentioned) but this is why I would have him coming off the bench, possibly coming on at 13 and moving Sam Burgess to Prop when Graham or Hill go off. We will learn more about his fitness today as he will likely play 80 mins as Bennet has said he want to give the Wigan and Wire players a rest.
Oh and when Ward played next to Watkins last year Leeds were the top try scorers.

Re: Your England Team : Sat Oct 22, 2016 11:42 am  

leedsnsouths wrote:

I agree Farrell has been better this year, but lets look at his international performances where he has consistently been bullied out the game compared to Ferres who has had big impact on games. If Farrell comes up against Martin Tapau or Sam Thainday he will get totally dominated and we will consistently loose the PTB on his side.
It is a matter of tactics, nothing to do with his performances this year.

Ward constantly made over 40 tackles last year and usually dominates the tackle when he does. He may not be much heavier than Farrell but neither is Bateman, yet I would argue both are clearly stronger than Farrell from the way they take the ball into contact and are both more aggressive in the tackle

The one negative against Ward is the amount of games he has played (as you mentioned) but this is why I would have him coming off the bench, possibly coming on at 13 and moving Sam Burgess to Prop when Graham or Hill go off. We will learn more about his fitness today as he will likely play 80 mins as Bennet has said he want to give the Wigan and Wire players a rest.
Oh and when Ward played next to Watkins last year Leeds were the top try scorers.

Farrell came up against Thaiday in the 2015 WCS and came up with about 150m, 40 tackles and a try.

He's played a few games for England but he's not had too many opportunities to test himself against Australia or New Zealand at international level. He's a better player then Ferres or Ward although I do agree Ferres has had a superb time in an England shirt.

Re: Your England Team : Sat Oct 22, 2016 12:23 pm  

If LandS is picking on last year and International performances then Watkins should be nowhere near International selection. His wingers got four passes in total in three games.

Re: Your England Team : Sat Oct 22, 2016 1:49 pm  

NickyKiss wrote:

Farrell came up against Thaiday in the 2015 WCS and came up with about 150m, 40 tackles and a try.

He's played a few games for England but he's not had too many opportunities to test himself against Australia or New Zealand at international level. He's a better player then Ferres or Ward although I do agree Ferres has had a superb time in an England shirt.

That isn't an international match so the game wasn't that intense and Farell may have been able to get outside and attack the centre or halfback, he won't be allowed to do that against Australia.When he played against NZ last year he was totally bullied out of the game.
I actually don't think he is better than Ward and definitely wouldn't swap them but I understand that Ward hasn't fully proved that yet for more than one season.

Re: Your England Team : Sat Oct 22, 2016 1:53 pm  

Rogues Gallery wrote:

If LandS is picking on last year and International performances then Watkins should be nowhere near International selection. His wingers got four passes in total in three games.

I think that is a bit harsh given the lack of ball and space the outside backs were given, if he just passed his winger the ball in a narrow channel against an international team they would have got bundled into touch.
However I agree that in game 3 last year he left his hands at home (although he did beat Whare 1 on 1 a couple of times)

Also if we were picking people based on last year then Williams and Widdop would be left at home

Re: Your England Team : Sat Oct 22, 2016 2:30 pm  

leedsnsouths wrote:

That isn't an international match so the game wasn't that intense and Farell may have been able to get outside and attack the centre or halfback, he won't be allowed to do that against Australia.When he played against NZ last year he was totally bullied out of the game.
I actually don't think he is better than Ward and definitely wouldn't swap them but I understand that Ward hasn't fully proved that yet for more than one season.

Faz is 100 per cent a better player at this stage, it's not even arguable. I see your point though, Ward clearly has talent and hopefully he can stay fit next year and we'll see if he's close led the gap on Farrell.

As for the main point, he should be nowhere near the England squad at the moment imo.

Re: Your England Team : Sat Oct 22, 2016 3:33 pm  

leedsnsouths wrote:

That isn't an international match so the game wasn't that intense and Farell may have been able to get outside and attack the centre or halfback, he won't be allowed to do that against Australia.When he played against NZ last year he was totally bullied out of the game.
I actually don't think he is better than Ward and definitely wouldn't swap them but I understand that Ward hasn't fully proved that yet for more than one season.

Pretty pointless arguing any point really when you'll have an answer for everything. Farrell is a fine player, a better player then Ward without question and has his Harry Sunderkand trophy sat on his mantle piece to back that up as well as inclusions in previous dream teams (when he played more then half a season).

If you go over to the England thread on the VT you'll see that I've praised Ward, Ferres and Hall and defended their inclusions in the squad so it's certainly be not being biased to suggest Faz is a better player then Ward. It isn't even close at the moment (but it probably will be one day).

Re: Your England Team : Sat Oct 22, 2016 4:00 pm  

I wouldn't lose a second's sleep if no Wigan players were picked.

Re: Your England Team : Sat Oct 22, 2016 4:21 pm  

No Farell, Feres or Ward. Navarette starts for France.

Re: Your England Team : Sat Oct 22, 2016 5:57 pm  

Good to see Navarette hammer James Graham in the first half and for scouse Jimmy to spit his dummy out pointing at him.

Mixed bag from Navarette overall. He looks very raw and he's been targeted in attack but he's shown some impressive aggression in defence.