Re: England Selection : Mon Apr 24, 2023 2:10 pm  

NSW wrote:

Really disappointing from Saints, Catalan and Toulouse. Particularly with Wellens being involved in the England set up recently.

Any player “injured” for these weeks should be forced to miss the following weeks SL games.

Glad Peet’s approach that he wants our players playing for England.

Why, have Catalan and Toulouse withdrew players also? They basically are the French team.

Re: England Selection : Mon Apr 24, 2023 6:45 pm  

NickyKiss wrote:

It’s 3 from 4 available in reality. Walmsley ruled out weeks ago, Percival is injured for a few weeks, Knowles suspended and if Makinson wasn’t fit enough to play against Wire with so many out, we can take that on face value.

It’s still a 75% pull out rate though, with no obvious issues for any of them in the last game. This has been the Saints way since Woolf came in. They see this as a rest weekend and a way of gaining an advantage over the competition. It’s extremely self serving and is a poor look but when they keep lifting trophies, it won’t bother them.

You say no obvious issues but it’s blindingly obvious Dodd is injured. We’ve had Bennison and Lussick kicking goals because he’s not capable of it at the moment.

Re: England Selection : Mon Apr 24, 2023 6:52 pm  

NSW wrote:

Any player “injured” for these weeks should be forced to miss the following weeks SL games.

Madness.

Wane will have his own view on the people who are genuinely injured and those that are trying it on and he’s under no obligation to select them going forward.

Banning people like Walmsley, Makinson, Percival, Dodd for carrying injuries is just daft. Knowles isn’t even available but is being reported as having been withdrawn!

Only the withdrawal of Lomax and Lees are remotely controversial and I doubt Lomax would have played anyway. Nobody knows whether they have genuine injuries or not but I’m inclined to agree that if it was the World Cup next week they would be available to play. Then again - maybe Wane doesn’t want to play players with knocks in a mid season game and has been in the loop.

If my impression of Wane is correct, the punishment for not putting your hand up will be not getting selected when it matters.

Re: England Selection : Mon Apr 24, 2023 8:20 pm  

FearTheVee wrote:

You say no obvious issues but it’s blindingly obvious Dodd is injured. We’ve had Bennison and Lussick kicking goals because he’s not capable of it at the moment.

Presumed that had been an issue with him missing goals but if he’s got a knock fair enough. I don’t think he deserves to be picked anyway but the Lomax and Lees ones look typical Saints pull outs. I have been vocal on the constant Saints pull outs over the past few years. I have always thought it’s pretty shameful tbh and it’s clear as day they’ve decided to treat the mid season game as a break for their players and to not support it. There have been constant England pull outs and the unwillingness to ever put overseas players forward for that Exiles game was also extremely poor, especially in the season were the game was helping support a former player in Mose Masoe. That’s old ground though but things don’t look like changing.

Going forward if I were Wane, I’d want a sit down with Wellens to discuss what his thoughts are and if there is any commitment to support the national side. I could sort of get the reluctance of a rival international coach in not being hugely supportive but I thought things may change under Wellens. If Wane isn’t happy with these pull outs, I hope he’s not diplomatic this time and rattles a few cages. It needs calling out and heat being put on the clubs/coaches.

Re: England Selection : Mon Apr 24, 2023 9:36 pm  

It's gone on for years and isn't just saints. Pretty sure something was brought into football to stop it happening there.

IMO the England doctor should be independent to clubs and should decide whether a player returns to their club or not.

It needs fixing anyway. You wouldn't see Cleary pull out of Origin to play for Penrith

Re: England Selection : Mon Apr 24, 2023 9:57 pm  

Egg Chasing wrote:

It's gone on for years and isn't just saints. Pretty sure something was brought into football to stop it happening there.

IMO the England doctor should be independent to clubs and should decide whether a player returns to their club or not.

It needs fixing anyway. You wouldn't see Cleary pull out of Origin to play for Penrith

Origin has prestige with the players, putting 50 past a half baked France side doesn’t.

Saints culture is oft cited as one of the main reasons why we haven’t been completely gutted by the NRL (yet), and the double edge sword of having Saints players buy into that culture is this; them pulling out of games they see as contrary to their aim. Make the fixture more important and you wouldn’t see Saints players pull out.

All that being said, on form only Lees deserves to even be in the conversation, and he’s probably one most at risk of sitting it out anyway.

Re: England Selection : Mon Apr 24, 2023 11:04 pm  

I'm sorry FTV but that's BS as far as I'm concerned. Dodd is carrying an injury but put in 80 mins for Saints just 2 days ago? So it's serious enough to pull out of the International but not serious enough to stop him playing for Saints? A selective injury then, that only raises its head when...well...it benefits Saints. That's EXACTLY what the criticism is here so you're in effect agreeing. Saying Lomax might not play as if that justifies pulling out too is utterly ridiculous. It's a 40 man squad. The majority will probably not play! That's wholly irrelevant. As for Lees...come on! You're down on props so God forbid it inconveniences Saints! In case you haven't noticed, we are down a similar number of props. Should Harvard pull out? What about Faz and Marshall... clearly carrying knocks. Let's pull Wardle, King and KPP to because it's a long season and they could do with a rest!

Get a grip man! Saints, once again are peeing all over the International game. There's no excuses. You either support club over country or you don't. If you don't, as you say is the case, don't try to excuse Saints' appalling attitude.

For me, none of the players who have pulled out should play International rugby again.

However, I agree counting Knowles, Walmsley etc amongst their number is just nonsense.

Re: England Selection : Tue Apr 25, 2023 5:59 am  

Magic Superbeetle wrote:

Origin has prestige with the players, putting 50 past a half baked France side doesn’t.

Saints culture is oft cited as one of the main reasons why we haven’t been completely gutted by the NRL (yet), and the double edge sword of having Saints players buy into that culture is this; them pulling out of games they see as contrary to their aim. Make the fixture more important and you wouldn’t see Saints players pull out.

All that being said, on form only Lees deserves to even be in the conversation, and he’s probably one most at risk of sitting it out anyway.

Playing for your country should carry prestige regardless of who you're playing.

I'm not having a go at Saints solely here BTW as I say it's gone on for years.

Re: England Selection : Tue Apr 25, 2023 6:35 am  

Phuzzy wrote:

I'm sorry FTV but that's BS as far as I'm concerned. Dodd is carrying an injury but put in 80 mins for Saints just 2 days ago? So it's serious enough to pull out of the International but not serious enough to stop him playing for Saints? .

The lad is currently injured and coming back from an Achilles injury. If your point is do players play injured in meaningful games but less so in friendlies then of course the answer is a resounding yes. You are also assuming he’s pulled out without Wane’s knowledge. That may be the case, it may not. He wouldn’t have played so maybe Wane thinks allowing an injured player rest is better than bringing him into a squad for a game he wont play in.

I didn’t say Lomax not playing justifies pulling out. I said him and Lees were the controversial ones but in reality Lomax wouldn’t play. It was more a point that it doesn’t really impact Wane and England.

Don’t get me wrong - I’m a big international RL fan (see my avatar and the cash I’ve spent travelling the world watching England/GB) and o don’t believe in players picking and choosing and o believe being in camp is an important part of building a winning culture and winning team.

As I said earlier two pull outs are two too many. Then again - had the game been England exiles last week nobody would have believed saints withdrawing Walmsley, Paasi, Sironen, Matautia, Makinson, Percival, Knowles etc due to injury but players get injured week to week.

As I said - I think Lomax and Lees are the questionable ones, Dodd is a non-event as he’s playing injured.

Re: England Selection : Tue Apr 25, 2023 11:20 am  

Squad announced (15 players selected)

England squad
Matty Ashton, Ben Currie (both Warrington Wolves), Tyler Dupree (Salford Red Devils), Ash Handley (Leeds Rhinos), James Harrison (Warrington Wolves), Ethan Havard (Wigan Warriors), Tom Holroyd (Leeds Rhinos), Toby King (Wigan Warriors), Mikey Lewis, Jez Litten (both Hull KR), Matty Nicholson (Warrington Wolves), Kai Pearce-Paul, Harry Smith, Morgan Smithies (all Wigan Warriors), Josh Thewlis, Danny Walker (both Warrington Wolves), Jake Wardle (Wigan Warriors), Jack Welsby (St Helens), George Williams (Warrington Wolves).