Re: England vs Samoa : Mon Nov 04, 2024 1:59 pm  

Bullseye wrote:

Newman is still raw but has plenty of potential. Needs to wise up defensively and also be more direct with his running - that crossfield stuff might work in some SL games but will be punished by the Aussies.

As with any international selection for as long as I can remember when it comes to taking on the Aussies we need all our 1st choice players fit as there is hardly any depth.

At almost 25 he's not young anymore, for me his defence just isn't at the level it needs to be for the international game.
He's greedy, which may be the result of playing in a team where he's one of the stars, and barring being quick and able to snap up an intercept I don't see much to his game.

Wardle, Percival, or even Bateman (and I never thought I'd say that!) ahead of him at centre for England.
Farnworth is first name on the teamsheet for me.

[Bullseye]

Re: England vs Samoa : Mon Nov 04, 2024 2:09 pm  

After Farnworth, Wardle and Newman who do we have in the centres? It's a bit thin there. As mentioned it's even worse at fullback. Welsby is out on his own. He wasn't as influential in this series as he has been in the past but I really don't see who else threatens his place.

O'Neill and Clark have hooker sewn up. I don't really rate Walker.

In the pack we have plenty but I'm not sure our back three is as big and mobile as the Aussie back three. In the world cup I was struck by how much quicker they all were and they combined that with size. We're going to need enough go forward so we're not consistently kicking from inside our 40m area like in all previous tests versus Australia.

[Bullseye]

Re: England vs Samoa : Mon Nov 04, 2024 2:11 pm  

nikos wrote:

At almost 25 he's not young anymore, for me his defence just isn't at the level it needs to be for the international game.
He's greedy, which may be the result of playing in a team where he's one of the stars, and barring being quick and able to snap up an intercept I don't see much to his game.

Wardle, Percival, or even Bateman (and I never thought I'd say that!) ahead of him at centre for England.
Farnworth is first name on the teamsheet for me.

Newman may be 25 but he's had a lot of injuries so missed a lot of rugby. He's also had the disadvantage of playing for Leeds and so hasn't played in play offs versus the best in high pressure games. Given those factors I believe he can improve a fair bit. Versus Australia would be a tough place to learn so I'd have Wardle in front of him any day.

Re: England vs Samoa : Mon Nov 04, 2024 2:28 pm  

Bullseye wrote:

After Farnworth, Wardle and Newman who do we have in the centres? It's a bit thin there. As mentioned it's even worse at fullback. Welsby is out on his own. He wasn't as influential in this series as he has been in the past but I really don't see who else threatens his place.

.

After those 3 you're probably looking at Toby King, who I thought went well against Tonga last year and does help you get away from your end and Mark Percival. I'd say the latter is extremely unlikely to be available though and I can't really blame him. It looks a challenge for him to get through a Superleague match, let alone a test series against Australia. It's a shame because Percival is without doubt our best centre after Farnworth and Wardle and would allow you the chance to use Farnworth as back up fullback and have confidence you won't fall apart in the centres.

Re: England vs Samoa : Mon Nov 04, 2024 3:39 pm  

FB
Welsby
Evalds
Connor
Brierley

Centre
Farnworth
Wardle
Newman
King
Percival
Cross?

Very bleak. We really need the likes of Lindop, Taylor-Wray, Eckersley and Robertson to get more first-ream games next year.

Re: England vs Samoa : Mon Nov 04, 2024 3:42 pm  

Umyla Hanley went very well at Leigh this year. If he shows the same improvement from this season to next as he did from last season to this then I think he becomes another option at centre. I would also include Sam Wood at Cas, who Wane has already given a debut to. So, there is some potential depth out there. Don't get me wrong, though, I am not suggesting either of them is at the level Newman or King is right now, never mind Wardle and Farnworth. But I could see one or both getting there. Hopefully we won't be forced into shoehorning back rowers like Currie and Bateman in there any time soon. It's true our defence has to be on point for 80 minutes against Australia, but we also need to be able to score tries, which is what cost us in the 2017 World Cup. I agree we are worryingly short on full-back options after Welsby. Niall Evalds would probably be my next pick, but he is already 31. Hopefully Eckersley might be able to step into that role, or maybe Harry Robertson.

Re: England vs Samoa : Mon Nov 04, 2024 3:53 pm  

Bullseye wrote:

After Farnworth, Wardle and Newman who do we have in the centres? It's a bit thin there. As mentioned it's even worse at fullback. Welsby is out on his own. He wasn't as influential in this series as he has been in the past but I really don't see who else threatens his place.

O'Neill and Clark have hooker sewn up. I don't really rate Walker.

In the pack we have plenty but I'm not sure our back three is as big and mobile as the Aussie back three. In the world cup I was struck by how much quicker they all were and they combined that with size. We're going to need enough go forward so we're not consistently kicking from inside our 40m area like in all previous tests versus Australia.

i think part of the problem re FB is that Wigan, Wire, KR, Leigh, Leeds, Cas all have overseas FB and thats with me discounting Hull (cos i've no idea who their full back is anymore , and Connor has moved on from Hudds, so really only left with Saints, Salford and London from SL last year. So that leaves Welsby with very little competition at the minute, certainly not for the no1 international jersey

an outside shout could be Sam Tomkins but given he's retired from the game twice, that would really be an outside chance but if he goes well this year, at least it would be some competition for Welsby to push him on

Re: England vs Samoa : Mon Nov 04, 2024 7:07 pm  

Wigg'n wrote:

FB
Welsby
Evalds
Connor
Brierley

Centre
Farnworth
Wardle
Newman
King
Percival
Cross?

Very bleak. We really need the likes of Lindop, Taylor-Wray, Eckersley and Robertson to get more first-ream games next year.

The starting options are as good as we've had for a while but the drop off is pretty frightening. Those young lads are very promising and maybe one or two really smash a door down a bit like Nsemba but we'll see. What worries me is the talk of teams getting more players off the quota and then that'll allow them to fill squads with more overseas players (and not very good ones half the time).

Re: England vs Samoa : Mon Nov 04, 2024 9:09 pm  

Game over if Welsby gets injured. Had hoped that Will Pryce could provide back up at fullback but he's on the outer at Newcastle.

Re: England vs Samoa : Mon Nov 04, 2024 9:16 pm  

MadDogg wrote:

Game over if Welsby gets injured. Had hoped that Will Pryce could provide back up at fullback but he's on the outer at Newcastle.

Is it a bad thing he’s on an outer?

May well kick on elsewhere. He’s clearly a talented player.