[DaveO]

Re: Squad for Wakefield & post match "discussion" : Mon Apr 11, 2016 8:50 am  

WARRIORCRAIG wrote:

I have to say we do look to be screaming out for a quality attacking coach. I don't think Wane needs replacing but he definitely needs better assistance. We have lost key staff members over the last few years who have been replaced by internal promotions or people combining roles, and there does seem to be a "jobs for the boys" culture developing. I don't think SW is the useless oaf that some make him out to be and I think he played an important role in the success we had when Madge was head coach. But the main aspects that seems to have been gradually eroded away over the past 2/3 seasons are the attacking structures and ball handling skills.

We were accused of being robotic at times under Madge but we were simply well drilled and everyone knew their role. And the proof was in the pudding because we used to score bagfuls of tries. The "sweeping" plays used to be perfectly timed with plenty of option runners available to take a short ball if the pass out the back wasn't on. It was a fast moving, deep lying attacking line that had been rehearsed over and over, and it worked. Now that has evolved into slow, sometimes standing still, passing along the line like what you would see at under 10's. Ridiculously easy to defend against at this level.

That is a very good description of how our attack compares now to the way it worked under Madge and it has been heading that way for a couple of seasons. It stands out like a sore thumb and so given the buck stops with Wane I can't fathom why you don't think he needs replacing. He isn't looking to hire an attack coach as far as we know and gives the impression he thinks he knows best anyway. I will never forget just after taking over from Madge how he said he wasn't happy with certain aspects of the way the team played felt he could improve matters and cut out stupid losses. After we had just had two seasons of play so far ahead of what had gone before under Noble I was gobsmacked.

I was all for Wane to get the job because I felt we would have continuity and would continue in the same way but that comment set the alarm bells ringing from the off and unfortunately I think my concerns were well founded.

My view is he is waiting for Sam Tomkins to return in the hope our stuttering attack will suddenly click into gear. He isn't going to change the attack and will no doubt blame poor execution. He tells the players what to do, they don't do it, not his fault! The fact we have not got the players to execute the attack like the Madge team seems to have passed him by and the thought of playing to the team's strength and ability doesn't seem to enter his head.

Re: Squad for Wakefield & post match "discussion" : Mon Apr 11, 2016 9:01 am  

If Wane had an ounce of decency in him instead of making excuses about injuries and the rest, he'd apologise to the faithful fans who went yesterday and showed their class by staying till the end to watch an embarrassing performance from the team he put out

Re: Squad for Wakefield & post match "discussion" : Mon Apr 11, 2016 9:09 am  

chissitt wrote:

If Wane had an ounce of decency in him instead of making excuses about injuries and the rest, he'd apologise to the faithful fans who went yesterday and showed their class by staying till the end to watch an embarrassing performance from the team he put out

Perhaps those who stayed only did so because the coaches that brought them wouldn't be open for boarding until after the game!

Re: Squad for Wakefield & post match "discussion" : Mon Apr 11, 2016 9:11 am  

WARRIORCRAIG wrote:

I have to say we do look to be screaming out for a quality attacking coach. I don't think Wane needs replacing but he definitely needs better assistance. We have lost key staff members over the last few years who have been replaced by internal promotions or people combining roles, and there does seem to be a "jobs for the boys" culture developing. I don't think SW is the useless oaf that some make him out to be and I think he played an important role in the success we had when Madge was head coach. But the main aspects that seems to have been gradually eroded away over the past 2/3 seasons are the attacking structures and ball handling skills.

We were accused of being robotic at times under Madge but we were simply well drilled and everyone knew their role. And the proof was in the pudding because we used to score bagfuls of tries. The "sweeping" plays used to be perfectly timed with plenty of option runners available to take a short ball if the pass out the back wasn't on. It was a fast moving, deep lying attacking line that had been rehearsed over and over, and it worked. Now that has evolved into slow, sometimes standing still, passing along the line like what you would see at under 10's. Ridiculously easy to defend against at this level.

Although a recent critic of SW historically I have been a supporter and before MM was appointed I was all for SW being given a chance in replacing Noble. The last 2 seasons has seen an incredible decline in our playing standards which is I think a combination of virtually non existent quality recruitment and a change in playing style that is absolutely appalling to watch.
The 3 wise men we are told agree on recruitment therefore I assume collective responsibility however, team performance is down to the coach. A year or 2 ago SW mentioned a change in playing style and I remember on is forum a few postings questioning what this change actually was. The change I think is one of lack of believe in the quality of the players leading to an ultra conservative style of play with the players given zero scope to play anything off the cuff.
Personally I would give SW until the end of the season to try and turn it around because I think based on his past performance he deserves the chance to do so. Given the current squad and style I genuinely don't think he can do it but hope he has some inner strength of character to accept some of errors of judgement on his part and make some necessary changes to our playing style.
My major concern is IL. Without his acquisition of the club a dread to think where we would be today however, some of his recent poor handling on recruitment, fixture turmoil and almost comic handling of the Easte Monday debacle together with total lack of respect for supporters re the London adventure leaves me more than a little concerned. We are mid way through April yet we still don't know if we are playing a game in London again this season which I find totally incredulous.
IL is 10 years older since he bought us and maybe he just can't afford to spend the time required at the club anymore which if true is worrying. If it were my investment I would look to replace KR as soon as possible because I just don't see what he brings to the club and I would want someone with more experience to help me through the next few years of change.
A tough few months ahead and the club needs to step up in terms of performance on and off the field.

Re: Squad for Wakefield & post match "discussion" : Mon Apr 11, 2016 9:26 am  

Didn't Cas beat Widnes and Leeds with 11 players out?

Re: Squad for Wakefield & post match "discussion" : Mon Apr 11, 2016 11:59 am  

As someone who has watched every team that Wane has coached from U16's/U18's/ reserves to first team I can honestly say that yesterday was the most unlike Wane team performance I have ever seen. I don't think I've ever seen one of his teams "throw the towel in" before.

After 20 minutes the game was only 6 - 0 and then came the first interchanges, Mossop and Clubb off replaced by Tautai and Burke. From then on the game just went away from Wigan.

To be fair to Wakefield, they played some great rugby and with the amount of possession they had they took Wigan apart.

With such an inexperienced back line I think Wigan should have gone boring, five drives and a kick and hoped for errors.

I can understand the lack of precision in the attacking side of the game when you are missing four of your biggest metre makers, but that should not transfer to the
defensive/ tackling side of the game.

I hope Radlinski goes in to the young players and reminds them of his first team debut.

On a lighter note, my shower new gel appears to be working. Saints fans who have avoided me for the last three weeks all wanted to talk to me today.

Re: Squad for Wakefield & post match "discussion" : Mon Apr 11, 2016 12:25 pm  

If Wane had an ounce of decency in him instead of making excuses about injuries and the rest, he'd apologise to the faithful fans who went yesterday and showed their class by staying till the end to watch an embarrassing performance from the team he put out

And humility and give Wakey some praise.

Re: Squad for Wakefield & post match "discussion" : Mon Apr 11, 2016 12:43 pm  

I wonder what is going through Sam Tomkins' mind, watching on from the side-lines?

Maybe something along the lines of "Jeez, what have I let myself in for?", considering he would scarcely have been short of interest from other SL clubs.

As I said up-thread, I think, the most dispiriting thing for me is that nearly every recent opponent we have had (OK, not Saints ) have played better and more fluent attacking footy than us.


And now we can say, that certainly includes Wakefield.

Re: Squad for Wakefield & post match "discussion" : Mon Apr 11, 2016 12:57 pm  

Rogues Gallery wrote:

As someone who has watched every team that Wane has coached from U16's/U18's/ reserves to first team I can honestly say that yesterday was the most unlike Wane team performance I have ever seen. I don't think I've ever seen one of his teams "throw the towel in" before.

After 20 minutes the game was only 6 - 0 and then came the first interchanges, Mossop and Clubb off replaced by Tautai and Burke. From then on the game just went away from Wigan.

To be fair to Wakefield, they played some great rugby and with the amount of possession they had they took Wigan apart.

With such an inexperienced back line I think Wigan should have gone boring, five drives and a kick and hoped for errors.

I can understand the lack of precision in the attacking side of the game when you are missing four of your biggest metre makers, but that should not transfer to the
defensive/ tackling side of the game.

I hope Radlinski goes in to the young players and reminds them of his first team debut.

On a lighter note, my shower new gel appears to be working. Saints fans who have avoided me for the last three weeks all wanted to talk to me today.

Brian, just go back to them and state how poor they must be if we pumped them at theirs only two weeks ago.

Re: Squad for Wakefield & post match "discussion" : Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:07 pm  

We all agree that Smith had a howler (carrying a knock??).
We know that he's been relieved of goal-kicking duties as the pressure had been affecting his game.
So why did SW give him the additional responsibility of Captain when the guy is clearly struggling?
Rabbits and headlights spring to mind.
One of the (few) other senior players should have been given the band. JT maybe, or Sarge, or Moose, or even Clubb. None ideal, but....