: Thu Jul 09, 2009 3:17 pm  

wigan_knight wrote:

They just showed a small clip of an interview with Veivers that they will show in full when Stevos in the studio.

they said "wigan assistant phil veivers tells sky sports the club will support gareth hock"

I suppose he's going to need support from somewhere, or he's likely to go totally off the rails.

Glad to see that, to be honest. Offender or not, he's still one of ours. His ban is punishment enough, so it's good that we haven't just cut our ties with him and abandoned him to a very uncertain fate.

: Thu Jul 09, 2009 3:19 pm  

hock is one of the best players we've had in a while. we should look after him and help him overcome his problems with a view to returning to the side

: Thu Jul 09, 2009 3:20 pm  

cadoo wrote:

But that will mean replacing Phil Bailey and Gareth Hock purely with homegrown talent.

Would you be happy going into next season with just Joel Tomkins, Lee Mossop and Harrison Hansen?

I'm not sure.

From an outside view I think those three plus Flanagan and Farrell would be fairly weak, purely down to an experience point of view really, though I think Hansen is fairly average. I think you'd either have to keep Bailey for another year or two or sign someone more experienced, given that nether Flanagan nor Farrell have had any serious gametime in the first team.

: Thu Jul 09, 2009 3:30 pm  

[Gareth] wrote:

hock is one of the best players we've had in a while. we should look after him and help him overcome his problems with a view to returning to the side

He is one of the best players this country has produced ina while nevermind just Wigan, it's just a shame he is so thick.

What is also a shame is that I have heard from a very good source that it is not Gaz Hocks fault, he just got caught, there are more than we think doing the same.

: Thu Jul 09, 2009 3:35 pm  

odemwingie wrote:

He is one of the best players this country has produced ina while nevermind just Wigan, it's just a shame he is so thick.

What is also a shame is that I have heard from a very good source that it is not Gaz Hocks fault, he just got caught, there are more than we think doing the same.

Of course it's his fault, who's fault is it? Was he forced to take the drug?

Just because others are doing it and haven't been caught doesn't excuse him doing it, nor absolve him of any blame.

: Thu Jul 09, 2009 3:38 pm  

odemwingie wrote:

He is one of the best players this country has produced ina while nevermind just Wigan, it's just a shame he is so thick.

agreed

odemwingie wrote:

What is also a shame is that I have heard from a very good source that it is not Gaz Hocks fault, he just got caught, there are more than we think doing the same.

for me, thats no excuse. to make an obvious quote, "if you cant do the time, dont do the crime"

i would say the others are lucky not to have been caught rather than hock being unlucky to have been caught

: Thu Jul 09, 2009 4:09 pm  

Billinge_Lump wrote:

Of course it's his fault, who's fault is it? Was he forced to take the drug?

Just because others are doing it and haven't been caught doesn't excuse him doing it, nor absolve him of any blame.

I should of put that as a quote as I heard that from a saints players mouth.

: Thu Jul 09, 2009 5:18 pm  

Billinge_Lump wrote:

From an outside view I think those three plus Flanagan and Farrell would be fairly weak, purely down to an experience point of view really, though I think Hansen is fairly average. I think you'd either have to keep Bailey for another year or two or sign someone more experienced, given that nether Flanagan nor Farrell have had any serious gametime in the first team.

And I share that view. It sounds brilliant in theory to have so many of our young players in the team but the reality is we already have a very inexperienced set of forwards with Prescott and O'carroll and McIlorum and in the back row it would be Harrison Hansen (23), Joel Tomkins (22) and Lee Mossop (20) who has only had a couple of months worth of super league experience. Add that to Flanagan and Liam Farrell who have never played super league before and it would put us in a very vunerable position.

Older more experienced packs would get the better of us. Don't get me wrong I believe all five players are talented and certainly in the future Wigan wont need to purchase another back row forward - providing these players are brought through correctly and reach their potential. But at the moment with the loss of Gareth Hock - I wouldn't like to lose another experienced player Phil Bailey and replace both players with young lads who have had little/no super league experience.

Wigan can either do two things. Give Phil Bailey a contract extension. He comes off the quota this year (because he was signed before the new rules were announced) and allow Liam Farrell and Mark Flanagan to adapt to super league either on loan or short spells in the team and allow Harrison Hansen, Joel Tomkins and Lee Mossop to get that bit more experienced and wiser.

Or release Phil Bailey along with Gareth Hock and make a move for an experienced second rower who will add a bit more beef and grunt to our pack with the wages from both Gareth Hock and Phil Bailey (Both six figure amounts you would imagine) and go for Frank Puletua or David Kidwell either would make fantastic signings - both players are out of contract at the end of the season.

: Thu Jul 09, 2009 5:28 pm  

cadoo wrote:

And I share that view. It sounds brilliant in theory to have so many of our young players in the team but the reality is we already have a very inexperienced set of forwards with Prescott and O'carroll and McIlorum and in the back row it would be Harrison Hansen (23), Joel Tomkins (22) and Lee Mossop (20) who has only had a couple of months worth of super league experience. Add that to Flanagan and Liam Farrell who have never played super league before and it would put us in a very vunerable position.

Older more experienced packs would get the better of us. Don't get me wrong I believe all five players are talented and certainly in the future Wigan wont need to purchase another back row forward - providing these players are brought through correctly and reach their potential. But at the moment with the loss of Gareth Hock - I wouldn't like to lose another experienced player Phil Bailey and replace both players with young lads who have had little/no super league experience.

Wigan can either do two things. Give Phil Bailey a contract extension. He comes off the quota this year (because he was signed before the new rules were announced) and allow Liam Farrell and Mark Flanagan to adapt to super league either on loan or short spells in the team and allow Harrison Hansen, Joel Tomkins and Lee Mossop to get that bit more experienced and wiser.

Or release Phil Bailey along with Gareth Hock and make a move for an experienced second rower who will add a bit more beef and grunt to our pack with the wages from both Gareth Hock and Phil Bailey (Both six figure amounts you would imagine) and go for Frank Puletua or David Kidwell either would make fantastic signings - both players are out of contract at the end of the season.

I am not sure the second row (where we lack experience) is an area where experience is really needed, good lines and power and skill I am sure are more important in that position. Yes it would be great to have a mixture of experience and youth but we don't for these next few games as much as before so lets relish the chance to see our young guns play, and I think we will see results of it not only in future but we will see how good they are tomorrow from 8 onwards.

Packs have been getting the better of us all season so I see know difference in playing an inexperienced pack for the next few weeks and maybe even next season, we will get the rewards of playing the younger players for years to come. We also still have Fielden and Coley who are very experienced. I think you are slightly making a mountain out of a mole hill.

your last paragraoh is spot on but Pritchard or Watmough would do a better job IMO but perhaps the players of your choice would demand a smaller wage.

: Thu Jul 09, 2009 5:31 pm  

wigan_knight wrote:

Listening to Veivers on Sky Sports news it seems the club will support Hock.

So i would let Farrell, Mossop fight it out for the number 11

Quality prop and Scrum half and i'm happy

See my previous post as to why I don't think that would be a good move.

I the club needs to prioritise the signings we need to make for this season.

With the new quota rules for next season and salary cap restrictions, a world class scrum half and prop forward are not going to be plausible. Plus the impression I get from the club is that not many players that fit this 'category' who are out of contract at the end of this season.

So which position takes the main priority?

For me we should forget a halfback and look to our forwards. The loss of Gareth Hock (one of our top metre makers) and most likely Phil Bailey and Andy Coley - plus the lack of grunt which has been evident since 2008 puts the forwards as top priority for me.

I would be looking for a prop forward to replace Andy Coley and a big second row forward to replace the experience of Phil Bailey and the skill of Gareth Hock. Unfortunately the lack of quality British players who have these attributes will mean we will have to look overseas. The quota for next season will only allow us to sign one more players (assuming we re-sign George Carmont). So we have to make some important decision.

Do we have enough in our squad to cope with the loss of George Carmont with the benefit of a quality second row forward and a quality prop forward?

If not - what does the club need more - a second rower or a prop forward?

For me I think if we could compensate the loss of George Carmont who has looked very injury prone this season and suspect in defence at times 1v1 and bring in Frank Puletua (OOC this year) and Ben Ross (OOC this year) I would be quite happy.

Of course we would have to release Cameron Phelps as well to keep these players under the quota but with Pat Richards as a replacement fullback and Sean Ainscough who can do a job on the wing I think we would go okay.

So our squad would look like:

Pat Richards
Amos Roberts
Martin Gleeson
Darrell Goulding/Karl Pryce
Sean Ainscough
Sam Tomkins
Thomas Leuluai
Stuart Fielden
Mark Riddell
Ben Ross
Frank Puletua
Joel Tomkins
Sean O'loughlin
-------------------------------------------
Harrison Hansen/Lee Mossop
Paul Prescott/Eamon O'carroll
Feka Paleaasina
Michael McIlorum

Quota players (6 allowed)

Frank Puletua
Ben Ross
Mark Riddell
Amos Roberts
Feka Paleaasina
Pat Richards

Thomas Leuluai and Harrison Hansen are both UK trained.

INS

Frank Puletua
Ben Ross

OUTS

Tim Smith
Andy Coley
Phil Bailey
George Carmont
Cameron Phelps