: Thu Jul 09, 2009 7:49 pm  

cadoo wrote:

Wrong , wrong and wrong.

There really is only one quota but the RFL love to confuse matters.

I think this is right.

The maximum overseas quota is five for next season.

The overseas quota is for players who are Australian/Kiwis.

Mark Riddell and Amos Roberts are the two that apply.

Then there is the overseas trained quota. Which is for players who were not trained in the Uk and for players who are on the overseas quota.

Just trust me Richards, Carmont and Feka all count. It's not worth trying to explain.

I'm not disputing that Carmont and Feka count but doesn't Richards have an Irish passport so he doesn't count on the quota?

Either way hasn't he been here since before June 2007 so unless I have misunderstood it he doesn't count on the quota anyway? Same goes for Feka.

: Thu Jul 09, 2009 8:17 pm  

kirkamania6 wrote:

I'm not disputing that Carmont and Feka count but doesn't Richards have an Irish passport so he doesn't count on the quota?

Either way hasn't he been here since before June 2007 so unless I have misunderstood it he doesn't count on the quota anyway? Same goes for Feka.

I don't know how but I think your right. I've found IL's post about it from a while back.

To avoid the delays of an expensive potential legal challenge and to be scrupulously fair to players, it was decided recently by the ESL/RFL -with the unanimous votes of the 12 Super League clubs - to extend Federation Trained status to any players who had committed their future to Super League before the new Regulations were implemented. Since 50% of such current players are 30+ and unlikely to play many further years in Super League, the majority of these exemptions will work their way out quickly.

George Carmont, Pat Richards and Feka Paleaasina therefore become Federation Trained immediately and Phil Bailey at the end of 2009 taking us to 5/5 and 4/8 for 2009. Unlike most other clubs, Wigan has 3 out of 4 re-categorised Non-Federation players of a young age.

So apparently George Carmont , Pat Richards and Feka cout on neither.

Meaning that for 2010 so far our 'Overseas trained' players are (maximum six):

Mark Riddell
Amos Roberts

That's it with Cameron Phelps counting on it if he was to re-sign.

Carmont, Richards and Feka don't count. (I think)

If you want the full post just say.

: Thu Jul 09, 2009 8:24 pm  

Here's an explanation direct from Ian Lenegan:

IFL wrote: Quota and Federation-Trained Rules

Since there is a great deal of confusion on this topic on Wigan forums, it might be useful to know the correct facts plus how the recent changes affect Wigan.

The "Quota" rules have been around for some years now and are based upon a player's Passport only. EU and Kolpak Passport holders (eg: Samoa, Tonga...) are exempt from the Quota rules. The maximum number of Quota players at clubs is 5 and remains 5 for the known future.

Players such as Pat Richards, Tommy Leuluai, Feka and Harrison Hansen have never counted towards the Quota of 5 because of their European or Kolpak Passports.

Wigan’s 5 Quota players for 2009 are Phil Bailey, George Carmont, Cameron Phelps, Tim Smith and Mark Riddell. Four of those players are currently off-Contract at the end of 2009 potentially freeing up Quota slots from then on for recruitment. George Carmont plays for Samoa and is in the final stages of obtaining a Samoan Passport. This will remove him from the Quota allowing, as a consequence, 1 further Quota player for Wigan for 2009 and onwards.

The Quota system alone was deemed insufficient in practice to genuinely reduce the number of ex-NRL players who by 2007 made up 45%+ of Super League players (hence restricting progress of homegrown juniors) because of the wide availability of Kolpak/European Passports in the NRL.

With a similar problem of high proportions of “overseas” players in certain European Leagues, the European Football authority UEFA devised and had ratified as legal in the EU, a constraint system based not upon Nationality (which would be discrimination) but upon a method of “Federation-Trained” categorisation of players. UEFA has not had the Football Clubs’/National Associations’ support to go for player number restrictions and hence this method has not been tried in practice or challenged via the Courts.

Since the Super League Clubs voted with a very large majority in 2006/7 for further restrictions for the good of the homegrown game, the RFL developed the Super League Federation-Trained scheme which was announced in 2007 to apply from 2008. This set of Regulations applies to the Top-25 players at the Club unlike Quota which applies across the whole playing staff.

This Federation Trained scheme involves a parallel system of categorization of players working in addition to and alongside the existing Quota system. It also includes positive discrimination by specifying increasing requirement numbers in each Club’s 25 man squad for Federation-Trained players. As a direct consequence of this required increase in Federation players, there is a corresponding reduction in Non-Federation Trained players as follows:

2008 10
2009 8
2010 6
2011 5

In 2008 Wigan had 5 out of the allowed 5 Quota players (Trent Barrett, Phil Bailey, Tim Smith, George Carmont, Cameron Phelps) and 7 out of the 10 allowed Non Federation Players (Trent Barrett, Phil Bailey, Tim Smith, George Carmont, Cameron Phelps, Feka, Pat Richards).

Tommy Leuluai is exempt from Quota with a Samoan Passport and classed as being exempt from being Non-Federation Trained because of his 2 full years at Harlequins whilst 20 and 21. Harrison Hansen is exempt from Quota because of his English Passport and is Federation Trained at Wigan from 18 to 21.

For 2009, prior to the recent changes, Wigan had 5 out of the allowed 5 quota slots (PB, TS, GC, CP, MR) and 7 out of the 8 allowed Non-Federation slots (PB, TS, GC, CP, MR, PR, FP). If George gets his Samoan Passport, we could sign another Australian/New Zealander who would take up both a Quota slot and a Non-Federation slot taking us to 5/5 and 8/8. If instead we signed another Kolpak player, we would go to 4/5 and 8/8 and would not be able to take another Quota player because he would then take us to 5/5 and 9/8.

The two systems work well together to achieve the Super League Clubs’ objectives.

Unfortunately, a number of Clubs in the last few months of 2008 used the “we do not have enough overseas slots available” reason for not renewing certain players’ Contracts and at least one legal case was threatened based upon constraint of a player’s ability to earn a living.

To avoid the delays of an expensive potential legal challenge and to be scrupulously fair to players, it was decided recently by the ESL/RFL -with the unanimous votes of the 12 Super League clubs - to extend Federation Trained status to any players who had committed their future to Super League before the new Regulations were implemented. Since 50% of such current players are 30+ and unlikely to play many further years in Super League, the majority of these exemptions will work their way out quickly.

George Carmont, Pat Richards and Feka Paleaasina therefore become Federation Trained immediately and Phil Bailey at the end of 2009 taking us to 5/5 and 4/8 for 2009. Unlike most other clubs, Wigan has 3 out of 4 re-categorised Non-Federation players of a young age.

In practice, it means that Wigan can only sign more Kolpak players for 2009 since Quota is full, unless George gets a Samoan Passport.

These recent amendments mean a slight slowdown – perhaps two years – in the full effect of the new Regulations but, against the backdrop of a current shortage of experienced Super League players with the advent of two additional teams, some people think that might not be a bad thing for maintaining playing standards.

Wigan would have preferred not to grant the new re-categorisations because we had fully planned for them better than many other clubs. However, we voted for them for fairness to players and as the only sure way to ensure that the new Regulations would be implemented, albeit slightly slower.

We also believe that the requirement for Club-Trained numbers in the 25 player squad (within the category of Federation-Trained) to rise as follows:

2008 5
2009 6
2010 7
2011 8

will encourage development and utilization of more homegrown players and mitigate against widespread recruitment of additional Kolpak players anyway.

As far as Wigan is concerned, we continue fully with our youth-focused policy for the medium-term growth in quality of the squad, together with judicious use of a limited number of quality overseas players.

Ian Lenagan

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

: Thu Jul 09, 2009 8:25 pm  

Mother Feka wrote: What about Daniel Conn, Anyone?

Mother Feka wrote: What about Daniel Conn, Anyone?

: Thu Jul 09, 2009 9:06 pm  

odemwingie wrote:

I should of put that as a quote as I heard that from a saints players mouth.

Doesn't matter who said it, it's still wrong.

: Fri Jul 10, 2009 8:50 am  

odemwingie wrote:

that it is not Gaz Hocks fault, he just got caught, .

lol

: Fri Jul 10, 2009 8:52 am  

I still think we should keep Bailey.

Great leader and the workhorse 2nd rower we need. I think he should be made captain permanently next year.

A great example of a pro who clearly loves it here and gives 110% every week.

Since he has been given a leaders role on the pitch he has come on leaps and bounds as well. And beore anyone says 'playing for a contract' I don't believe that with this guy for one bit.

: Fri Jul 10, 2009 9:36 am  

LondonRobster wrote:

I still think we should keep Bailey.

Great leader and the workhorse 2nd rower we need. I think he should be made captain permanently next year.

A great example of a pro who clearly loves it here and gives 110% every week.

Since he has been given a leaders role on the pitch he has come on leaps and bounds as well. And beore anyone says 'playing for a contract' I don't believe that with this guy for one bit.

Disagree totally. We have 3 workhorse second rowers already in Hansen, J Tomkins and O'Loughlin. All british and all as good as Bailey.

Then we have 2 potentially good second rowers coming through in Mossop and Farrell. For me these two are ready so lets get them involved now gradually.

With Hock getting banned it looks almost certain that we will probably retain Bailey. Personally I think we should retain Coley move him to second row his natural position and bring in two props.

Even better, we could release Coley and bring in a barnstorming second rower to replace Hock.

: Fri Jul 10, 2009 1:38 pm  

Tronc has been confirmed as a Wildcats player in Australia on the Footyshow last night by all accounts, wonder what exactly passes as Wigan quality these days as that lad will be a great addition to them.

: Fri Jul 10, 2009 1:42 pm  

jonh wrote:

Tronc has been confirmed as a Wildcats player in Australia on the Footyshow last night by all accounts, wonder what exactly passes as Wigan quality these days as that lad will be a great addition to them.

It really does make you wonder what IL's strategy is, doesn't it? We are still as desperate for front row power as ever and yet again we see suitable players being picked up one after the other. Is IL petrified in the headlights or working to a cunning plan?