Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Wed Nov 01, 2023 1:30 pm  

Stu M wrote:

Not sure how accurate those height and weight stats are given as only yesterday- Wane (who can do no wrong in the eyes of Wigan fans)- actually said that Smithies wasn't as big as Knowles?

Also Zig if you are going to quote stats it would be useful to see average mins per game played, total number of games played etc.

Ironic though that Wane chose Knowles over Smithies for England. Its only now that Knowles is injured that Smithies has been called up.

Makes you think doesn't it.

Mean does help if Knowles was on the field. Lad can’t stop being banned the dirty get

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Wed Nov 01, 2023 1:41 pm  

Stu M wrote:

Not sure how accurate those height and weight stats are given as only yesterday- Wane (who can do no wrong in the eyes of Wigan fans)- actually said that Smithies wasn't as big as Knowles?

Also Zig if you are going to quote stats it would be useful to see average mins per game played, total number of games played etc.

Ironic though that Wane chose Knowles over Smithies for England. Its only now that Knowles is injured that Smithies has been called up.

Makes you think doesn't it.

Probably left out due to Knowles' issues with his discipline

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Wed Nov 01, 2023 2:06 pm  

It’s very close between Knowles and Smithies for me. I think Smithies had the better season but Knowles has had better seasons than Smithies 2023 level in years gone by. I do think there’s potential Smithies goes past Knowles in the coming years as he’s younger and is going to test himself in a better comp. I think Knowles should have already looked to test himself in the NRL and if the opportunity comes up again, he should go. I do think he’s gone a bit stale at Saints and he lost his way a bit in 2023. You could make a strong case to say he’s not the best loose forward at Saints tbh.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Wed Nov 01, 2023 2:18 pm  

NickyKiss wrote:

It’s very close between Knowles and Smithies for me. I think Smithies had the better season but Knowles has had better seasons than Smithies 2023 level in years gone by. I do think there’s potential Smithies goes past Knowles in the coming years as he’s younger and is going to test himself in a better comp. I think Knowles should have already looked to test himself in the NRL and if the opportunity comes up again, he should go. I do think he’s gone a bit stale at Saints and he lost his way a bit in 2023. You could make a strong case to say he’s not the best loose forward at Saints tbh.

Personally, I think Knowles is a fine player and is, at this stage, a better player than Smithies.

I just dont think he belongs on the pedestal that most Saints fans put him on

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Wed Nov 01, 2023 2:22 pm  

NickyKiss wrote:

It’s very close between Knowles and Smithies for me. I think Smithies had the better season but Knowles has had better seasons than Smithies 2023 level in years gone by. I do think there’s potential Smithies goes past Knowles in the coming years as he’s younger and is going to test himself in a better comp. I think Knowles should have already looked to test himself in the NRL and if the opportunity comes up again, he should go. I do think he’s gone a bit stale at Saints and he lost his way a bit in 2023. You could make a strong case to say he’s not the best loose forward at Saints tbh.

I think thats a fair assessment. Smithies is a few years younger so may well end up becoming the better player I agree.

Its just ironic that Wigan fans keep saying Smithies is the better player yet Mr Wigan himself- Wane selects Knowles over Smithies so its a strange argument to have when you look at the facts.

Re the NRL point it was known that Knowles was severely tempted but had a baby boy at the time of the interest and said that it was bad timing and he needed his family around him.

I also agree that he wasn't the best LF at Saints last season. Bell was magnificent and gave us more in attack when he played there (and yes I know how God awful our attack was but you take my point)

He also definitely needs to be smarter with his discipline which to be fair he did seem to sort at the back end of the season.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Wed Nov 01, 2023 3:30 pm  

Stu M wrote:

Not sure how accurate those height and weight stats are given as only yesterday- Wane (who can do no wrong in the eyes of Wigan fans)- actually said that Smithies wasn't as big as Knowles?

Also Zig if you are going to quote stats it would be useful to see average mins per game played, total number of games played etc.

Ironic though that Wane chose Knowles over Smithies for England. Its only now that Knowles is injured that Smithies has been called up.

Makes you think doesn't it.

Smithies was still on the ale in Dublin just prior to the 1st test match.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Wed Nov 01, 2023 3:37 pm  

Itchy Arsenal wrote:

Smithies was still on the ale in Dublin just prior to the 1st test match.

The Saints players played in the WC last year after the GF

I'm pretty sure if Smithies knew he was being selected he'd have stayed at home.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Wed Nov 01, 2023 3:52 pm  

Stu M wrote:

I think thats a fair assessment. Smithies is a few years younger so may well end up becoming the better player I agree.

Its just ironic that Wigan fans keep saying Smithies is the better player yet Mr Wigan himself- Wane selects Knowles over Smithies so its a strange argument to have when you look at the facts.

Re the NRL point it was known that Knowles was severely tempted but had a baby boy at the time of the interest and said that it was bad timing and he needed his family around him.

I also agree that he wasn't the best LF at Saints last season. Bell was magnificent and gave us more in attack when he played there (and yes I know how God awful our attack was but you take my point)

He also definitely needs to be smarter with his discipline which to be fair he did seem to sort at the back end of the season.

I think Wane is trying to build a culture of trust and continuity personally and it’ll take players knocking doors down to displace guys already in the squad. That is generally a successful formula in international sports like Football and Cricket, so I don’t think it’s always as straightforward as a coach thinks player X is currently outperforming player Y.

I think Smithies, Cam Smith and Minchella have all had better seasons than Knowles but I can see why Knowles was selected ahead of them and I probably would’ve made the same call tbh.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Wed Nov 01, 2023 4:20 pm  

Stu M wrote:

Not sure how accurate those height and weight stats are given as only yesterday- Wane (who can do no wrong in the eyes of Wigan fans)- actually said that Smithies wasn't as big as Knowles?

Also Zig if you are going to quote stats it would be useful to see average mins per game played, total number of games played etc.

Ironic though that Wane chose Knowles over Smithies for England. Its only now that Knowles is injured that Smithies has been called up.

Makes you think doesn't it.

There you go Stu you are showing traces of anti-Wigan rhetoric.

Knowles height and weight is taken from St Helens website, he simply isn’t big enough for a prop. You may be right about Smithies because there is no official figures on Wigan’s website. Having said that I am not the one making these ludicrous statements it’s one of your own.

I will let you quote the stats relating to minutes played, I look forward to interpreting them when they are available. As it stands, I am happy to debate based on the SL statistics which use the number of games played.

Waney will have his reasons for selecting Knowles as will the Aussies for pursuing Smithies and not Knowles.

It is quite clear to me that the crap posted on Redvee is not thought through in the majority of cases, or supported with facts. In essence it is just views biased against Wigan. It is not a coincidence that Wigan have just won a GF. Whether you agree with it or not, and I really don’t care, I have tried to give a balanced view.

Regarding Waney, you are happy to pick and choose when you support his statements. I think you have shown your true colours these last few weeks.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Wed Nov 01, 2023 4:26 pm  

Zig wrote:

There you go Stu you are showing traces of anti-Wigan rhetoric.

Knowles height and weight is taken from St Helens website, he simply isn’t big enough for a prop. You may be right about Smithies because there is no official figures on Wigan’s website. Having said that I am not the one making these ludicrous statements it’s one of your own.

I will let you quote the stats relating to minutes played, I look forward to interpreting them when they are available. As it stands, I am happy to debate based on the SL statistics which use the number of games played.

Waney will have his reasons for selecting Knowles as will the Aussies for pursuing Smithies and not Knowles.

It is quite clear to me that the crap posted on Redvee is not thought through in the majority of cases, or supported with facts. In essence it is just views biased against Wigan. It is not a coincidence that Wigan have just won a GF. Whether you agree with it or not, and I really don’t care, I have tried to give a balanced view.

Regarding Waney, you are happy to pick and choose when you support his statements. I think you have shown your true colours these last few weeks.

You keep using Redvee as a stick to beat all Saints fans with when in actual fact a lot of decent Saints fans admit that there are idiots on there. In fact if you read it today you would see me and The Yellow Giraffe arguing with one such idiot.

Secondly I don't agree with everything Wane says or does but I do agree with some. I admitted that I agreed with his comments over Wellens just that they should've been kept private.

I don't think Knowles should play prop by the way.

My true colours? I'm hardly going to be pro-Wigan am I? However in the main I am balanced and fair. If you want to know my username on RedVee I'll PM you and you will see just today that I have been praising Wigan for being forward thinking and stockpiling props.

And I have been posting on here before and after the GF so I've hardly gone into hiding just because you've won a comp.