Re: Matty smith joins Wigan - Official : Sun Jul 08, 2012 10:08 pm  

pk wrote:

funny how this whole notion that 'rugby league is rubbish at the minute' is being peddled by saints fans when their team is in no danger of winning anything. would they still be like this if they were top of the league and in a cc semi?

if their basis for this argument is that our national side is crap, then how is that different than the past 20 years?

their team might be crap but this wigan side would beat any of their sides from the last 5/6 years.

The last time the GB national team seriously came close to beating the Aussies in a major tournament was when one team were totally dominating the league: Wigan (who provided about half of that international side). But of course, according to many of the people you are talking about, that era of Wigan dominance was very bad for the game.

It seems to me that as a barometer of the British game's health, the state of the GB/England team can either be underlined or ignored depending on which agenda is being promoted.

What I would agree with, however, is that if one team dominates for a long time, it can get boring. Thus I don't see it as a major crisis that Saints have slipped down a couple of pegs, as they have had plenty of time in the sun. These grandstanding St Helens nonentities on TotalRL who are 'not watching anymore because the game overall is unwatchably bad' could do with learning a little humility.

Re: Matty smith joins Wigan - Official : Mon Jul 09, 2012 1:55 am  

pk wrote:

funny how this whole notion that 'rugby league is rubbish at the minute' is being peddled by saints fans when their team is in no danger of winning anything. would they still be like this if they were top of the league and in a cc semi?

if their basis for this argument is that our national side is crap, then how is that different than the past 20 years?

their team might be crap but this wigan side would beat any of their sides from the last 5/6 years.

No.... The basis for the argument that the league is crap is that... well frankly, the league is crap...

A simple question: you look at your current squad and ask yourself how many of them would be good enough to have played for Wigan 10/15/20 years ago. (And that's from one of the stronger squads in the league right now). How many current GB players would have been good enough to get in a GB squad from 10/15/20 years ago?

Exactly.

If you want to know how weak the league is: Matty Smith is the best available half the biggest club in the league could find to build their team around for the next few seasons, Richie Myler is probably the other best young half in the country right now, and we have to make do with some raw kid and a clapped-out old antipodean fullback/hooker pulling the strings and are still stronger at #6 and #7 than most other clubs in SL.

Now look me in the eye and tell me the league in general and the quality of British players in particular are as strong as they've ever been. I dare you.

Re: Matty smith joins Wigan - Official : Mon Jul 09, 2012 3:51 am  

Northampton_Saint wrote:

No.... The basis for the argument that the league is crap is that... well frankly, the league is crap...

A simple question: you look at your current squad and ask yourself how many of them would be good enough to have played for Wigan 10/15/20 years ago. (And that's from one of the stronger squads in the league right now). How many current GB players would have been good enough to get in a GB squad from 10/15/20 years ago?

Exactly.

If you want to know how weak the league is: Matty Smith is the best available half the biggest club in the league could find to build their team around for the next few seasons, Richie Myler is probably the other best young half in the country right now, and we have to make do with some raw kid and a clapped-out old antipodean fullback/hooker pulling the strings and are still stronger at #6 and #7 than most other clubs in SL.

Now look me in the eye and tell me the league in general and the quality of British players in particular are as strong as they've ever been. I dare you.

Chill out bruv its only an internet forum

Re: Matty smith joins Wigan - Official : Mon Jul 09, 2012 6:51 am  

I think the quality of Wigan as a team is far better than for many years.

Their attack is not only structured but also expansive and in Sam they have one of the finest individuals who would be a superstar in any team including the Hanley/Gregory/Edwards/Offiah era. They have a very good defensive structure too.

The main issue with the overall quality of SL of recent years is that we are playing with 2 two many teams, but then there have always been crap teams in any era of SL.

I think this wigan team could easily hold it's own against any of the better teams in the SL era.

Re: Matty smith joins Wigan - Official : Mon Jul 09, 2012 6:54 am  

doesn't help that there isn't enough money in SL compared to NRL and Yawnion, top players now have other options if they so wish to chose.

Re: Matty smith joins Wigan - Official : Mon Jul 09, 2012 8:16 am  

Go easy on me, first post.....

Put Simply there isnt enough investment in the game for it to compete with NRL, we can hold our own with domestic RU I have no doubt and lets not forget RU as a game is far less appealing nationaly as it on an International platform, in fact its awful!

With the NRL Salary Cap increase the days of marquee SOO/International signings have gone, if you look at the wages of some of the stars of the game in Australia it dwarfs the UK cap. 300k+ is not uncommon.

The answer for now has to be to survive and invest any money you have in your academy setup. We must develop from within. This opens up questions as to the viability of some clubs but no doubt if they have cash they will survive, inevitably when you find superstars the sports with more money will take them, or indeed other Superleague clubs who can pay over the odds for a player developed by a rival team, it happens now but no names mentioned as this post isnt meant to create an inter-club argument.

I have no doubt that Sam will go in 2 years and ply his trade in the NRL for double his salary, who wouldnt!? Thats why we need academy systems identifying the next Sam Tomkins and the like.

The game and quality of players isnt worse as a whole but the talent pool has become smaller. Gone are the days where you can go and make 4 marquee world class signings and place them with the best Britain has to offer.

As I stated at the top of the post, investment is key, how are national and international sponsors attracted? I am sponsor because I love the club, not for any financial benefit. I have ideas here but this is not the forum to discuss them.

I have though long and hard about how to improve the game and as a start I think a reduction in clubs would help, by at least 2, possibly 4. If the International game is to work, and it must, then by losing 2 teams it gives time for Internationals to be played without expecting players to front up 3 times in a week. Thats just wrong in my opinion. I think the whole licencing system needs auditing, how this mess with Bradford has come about is outrageous and this cannot be allowed again, it discredits the game as a whole.

As an aside, I thought Matty had a great game yesterday and made a difference when he came on, I am confident that he will be very succesful in his time at Wigan.

Rgds

AP

Re: Matty smith joins Wigan - Official : Mon Jul 09, 2012 8:34 am  

Applicado-fs wrote:

Go easy on me, first post.....

Put Simply there isnt enough investment in the game for it to compete with NRL, we can hold our own with domestic RU I have no doubt and lets not forget RU as a game is far less appealing nationaly as it on an International platform, in fact its awful!

With the NRL Salary Cap increase the days of marquee SOO/International signings have gone, if you look at the wages of some of the stars of the game in Australia it dwarfs the UK cap. 300k+ is not uncommon.

The answer for now has to be to survive and invest any money you have in your academy setup. We must develop from within. This opens up questions as to the viability of some clubs but no doubt if they have cash they will survive, inevitably when you find superstars the sports with more money will take them, or indeed other Superleague clubs who can pay over the odds for a player developed by a rival team, it happens now but no names mentioned as this post isnt meant to create an inter-club argument.

I have no doubt that Sam will go in 2 years and ply his trade in the NRL for double his salary, who wouldnt!? Thats why we need academy systems identifying the next Sam Tomkins and the like.

The game and quality of players isnt worse as a whole but the talent pool has become smaller. Gone are the days where you can go and make 4 marquee world class signings and place them with the best Britain has to offer.

As I stated at the top of the post, investment is key, how are national and international sponsors attracted? I am sponsor because I love the club, not for any financial benefit. I have ideas here but this is not the forum to discuss them.

I have though long and hard about how to improve the game and as a start I think a reduction in clubs would help, by at least 2, possibly 4. If the International game is to work, and it must, then by losing 2 teams it gives time for Internationals to be played without expecting players to front up 3 times in a week. Thats just wrong in my opinion. I think the whole licencing system needs auditing, how this mess with Bradford has come about is outrageous and this cannot be allowed again, it discredits the game as a whole.

As an aside, I thought Matty had a great game yesterday and made a difference when he came on, I am confident that he will be very succesful in his time at Wigan.

Rgds

AP

Nice post Andrew, you hit the nail on the head Rugby League is short of funding and the Sky money is spread too thinly to keep the stars in the UK game. We also have a very poor International set up as there are not enough meaningful games. The talent pool will only decrease further if investment in the game as a whole is not increased.

Re: Matty smith joins Wigan - Official : Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:08 am  

pie.warrior wrote:

Nice post Andrew, you hit the nail on the head Rugby League is short of funding and the Sky money is spread too thinly to keep the stars in the UK game. We also have a very poor International set up as there are not enough meaningful games. The talent pool will only decrease further if investment in the game as a whole is not increased.

Totally agree Andrew with you view of the game. I also have to agree with Northampton Saints. To many of our younger players come into the first team drilled to death but lacking that flair and opportunism like a Tommy Martin or Shaun Edwards. There are of course exceptions Sam T is one that sticks out a mile but I struggle to think of many more. Saints have brought through Lomax and Gaskell from the Academy while promising players they lack that X factor.

The fact that Wigan have signed Mattie Smith (god bless him) is a sign of the times when he was firstly rejected by the saints, and has never really set the world on fire when at Widnes and Salford shows how poor the market place is in rugby league at the moment. For me the better option for Wigan would have been bringing through the young Wigan half back on loan at Widnes. He does look like a real prospect! I am sure saints would be interested him in if Wigan wanted to offload ala Sean Long

Re: Matty smith joins Wigan - Official : Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:27 am  

Big Steve wrote:

I think this wigan team could easily hold it's own against any of the better teams in the SL era.

Utter nonsense - the Wigan of Farrell, Radlinski, Paul, Connolly etc. would chop the current Pie team (and anyone else currently in SL) into tiny little pieces, never mind the various Saints and Bradford teams there've been post '95. The current Wigan team may be fitter and better drilled than most of the better SL teams from the last 15 years, but would be inferior in every other possible department by a very considerable margin. Stop kidding yourself.

Re: Matty smith joins Wigan - Official : Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:48 am  

Northampton_Saint wrote:

Utter nonsense - the Wigan of Farrell, Radlinski, Paul, Connolly etc. would chop the current Pie team (and anyone else currently in SL) into tiny little pieces, never mind the various Saints and Bradford teams there've been post '95. The current Wigan team may be fitter and better drilled than most of the better SL teams from the last 15 years, but would be inferior in every other possible department by a very considerable margin. Stop kidding yourself.

This is you opinion, but please don't present it as fact. There is no way to tell how our current team would go against the Wigan or SL teams of the past. I think we'd be competitive and they would be good games, we may even come out on top, due to the current teams superior fitness.