Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Sun Mar 10, 2024 8:57 am  

Zig wrote:

I agree we underestimate them at our peril. Saints will be thereabouts when it comes to handing the cups out.

Yes you are right Zig as they did hand out the GF cup and the WCC to us.

On a serious note St Helens will struggle again this year in my view but you can never write off the saints

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Sun Mar 10, 2024 9:19 am  

Saints wouldn't have lost the game without the red card and I'd be very surprised if they weren't in the top 2 or 3 at the end of the year. However, it does feel like a few cracks have appeared over the last year.

Regan Grace leaves - they replace him with a Championship winger who hasn't really made an impact and an academy product who looks quite average. Waqa Blake looks unfit and uninterested although it is early. Paul Wellens doesn't look to be bringing as much as coach as Holbrook or Woolf did. Lomax and Makinson don't look the players they were.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Sun Mar 10, 2024 10:23 am  

There’s definitely a changing of the guard at St Helens but they are still a quality side and barring a disaster will be in the top 3 places this year and are genuine contenders for the title.

Some of these comments are coming across as arrogant and over confident. Any match against St Helens is going to be tough and can go either way.

Losing to Salford is no benchmark. They were winning comfortably and imo would have gone on to do so had Percival not tried to be big and hard instead of just making a tackle.

To whoever said they wouldn’t take a single St Helens player. I’d struggle to think of a team in the world that wouldn’t find a place for Welsby.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Sun Mar 10, 2024 10:38 am  

Trainman wrote:

There’s definitely a changing of the guard at St Helens but they are still a quality side and barring a disaster will be in the top 3 places this year and are genuine contenders for the title.

Some of these comments are coming across as arrogant and over confident. Any match against St Helens is going to be tough and can go either way.

Losing to Salford is no benchmark. They were winning comfortably and imo would have gone on to do so had Percival not tried to be big and hard instead of just making a tackle.

To whoever said they wouldn’t take a single St Helens player. I’d struggle to think of a team in the world that wouldn’t find a place for Welsby.

Where would you play him mate? On current form Field us a better Fullback and French a better Stand Off. He's quality, without a doubt, but he isn't playing well enough currently to force either of those two out of the Wigan side.

On a separate note he seems to have become scared of taking the ball on the full. What's happening with that? I've never noticed it in his play before. Surely it's not a deliberate tactic?

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Sun Mar 10, 2024 10:49 am  

Phuzzy wrote:

Where would you play him mate? On current form Field us a better Fullback and French a better Stand Off. He's quality, without a doubt, but he isn't playing well enough currently to force either of those two out of the Wigan side.

On a separate note he seems to have become scared of taking the ball on the full. What's happening with that? I've never noticed it in his play before. Surely it's not a deliberate tactic?

I know where would he play our current players in his position are better than Welsby,maybe on the subs bench

In all honesty who would we want from the Saints team and who would we drop to accommodate.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Sun Mar 10, 2024 11:06 am  

Jason65 wrote:

I know where would he play our current players in his position are better than Welsby,maybe on the subs bench

In all honesty who would we want from the Saints team and who would we drop to accommodate.

We currently have the best 1 and 6 in Superleague. It's no slight to suggest any other Superleague player in their position wouldn't currently force them out of the Wigan side. That's just a statement of fact.

The last sentence in bold is the crux of this argument imo. A team is more than the sum of it's parts and this is a group that exemplifies that statement. Keeping it with Saints for a moment, in keeping with this thread, there is little doubt that the likes of Welsby, Clark, Bachelor, Walmsley etc are all good players. But would they bring more than their Wigan counterparts to the Wigan side. We've already discussed Welsby regarding French or Field but equally, you could say Walmsley instead of who? Clark is still a great player and probably an upgrade on the 2023 Roby, but would he add anything to our hooking rotation? I wouldn't have anyone in front of O'Neil (again I'm talking for Wigan here) and Leeming seems, on early viewing, to compliment him perfectly.

If we're talking 'for Wigan' rather than 'who is the better player' I think there's merit in the statement without it being arrogant.

On the other side of the coin would Blake, Ritson, Bennison, Hurrell etc get anywhere near our current team? The answer is no.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Sun Mar 10, 2024 11:06 am  

All jokes aside, there are plenty of Saints players would get in a combined team between the two sides. We can leave the ‘I wouldn’t take any of their players’ comments to Red Vee. I think our squads the better of the two, without a doubt but there isn’t much in the first 17’s.


Saints will push Wigan all the way this year IMO but I’m not sure it’ll be massively entertaining for their fans to watch. They’ll not care though if they can win a trophy or two. Good Friday looks a really interesting game. I think Saints will be revved up beyond belief to try and lay a marker.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Sun Mar 10, 2024 11:19 am  

NickyKiss wrote:

All jokes aside, there are plenty of Saints players would get in a combined team between the two sides. We can leave the ‘I wouldn’t take any of their players’ comments to Red Vee. I think our squads the better of the two, without a doubt but there isn’t much in the first 17’s.


Saints will push Wigan all the way this year IMO but I’m not sure it’ll be massively entertaining for their fans to watch. They’ll not care though if they can win a trophy or two. Good Friday looks a really interesting game. I think Saints will be revved up beyond belief to try and lay a marker.

I don't like the "combined team" approach to this NK, for the simple reason that it ignores one of the 2 words in the title; "team". You can't simply put who you perceive to be the better players together and assume you'll have the better team. That's not how it works. Then you have the subjective 'who is best' anyway. Is Walmsley better than Dupree or Thompson? Finally you have form. Is Welsby currently better than French or Field? It doesn't mean that he isn't their equal as a player.

The point being made (I think) is 'would any Saints players currently add anything more to the Wigan side than their Wigan counterparts' and I think that is a fair argument to make. It doesn't necessarily mean they don't have equally good players in certain positions.

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Sun Mar 10, 2024 11:27 am  

Good Friday will be every bit the challenge Penrith was, I just hope we don't draw each other in the cup the week before, even though that will become the far more important match to me it'll just flatten the occasion

Re: Wigan v Sts discussion - THIS THREAD ONLY PLEASE : Sun Mar 10, 2024 11:28 am  

NickyKiss wrote:

All jokes aside, there are plenty of Saints players would get in a combined team between the two sides. We can leave the ‘I wouldn’t take any of their players’ comments to Red Vee. I think our squads the better of the two, without a doubt but there isn’t much in the first 17’s.


Saints will push Wigan all the way this year IMO but I’m not sure it’ll be massively entertaining for their fans to watch. They’ll not care though if they can win a trophy or two. Good Friday looks a really interesting game. I think Saints will be revved up beyond belief to try and lay a marker.

Oh plenty of Saints players would get into our 17. It's a testament to the strength of both teams. Personally, I'd love to see a second row like Sironen at Wigan. Hopefully, Walters might end up being that guy for us. We've not had a big second row since Joel left.

In regards to Good Friday, am I right in saying Peet has never won away at Langtree (or whatever they call it)? I know we got beat there last year and lost on GF in 22.